Yes, I know .... illegal and will be confiscated......

Who's got one and what type?
Having had two portraits done in one week () I might be interested in a gadget to "remind me"

Heheh, at least you have a chance of knowing where they are since theyre all bolted to the ground. Unlike in Australia where they use portable cameras or handheld ones..

I got caught a few times here on the Forch bahn and on the Seestrasse (Tiefenbrunnen side). 50km is hard to stick to when theres no cars on the road..

incorrectamundo, I'm afraid. Two temporary installations!

Ah really? Just glad I dont drive here anymore. Had too many car related problems during the 3 months that I had use of a car. Surprised I didnt have more with all the one way/no entry streets I drove down.

PS. Is it illegal to drive down bahnhofstrasse?

not really; not some of it anyway.....certainly the bit outside my office is fair game

Mr. Rockster, you are a very very naughty boy...

No seriously, this is a topic that I know a little bit about. I've owned one a long time ago, but since moving to Switzerland I decided that it was completely useless to me, and eventually gave it away to my brother who lives in Australia. Why?

Well for a start he needs it far more than I do. The main benefit of a radar detector is to detect police cars using radar. Such mobile patrols are extremely common in Australia, so common in fact that you will seldom see anyone driving over the speed limit - it's maddening! How often have you seen a policeman pull anyone over in Switzerland for speeding on the motorway? How often have you seen a police car actually patrolling the motorway (as opposed to driving somewhere where they need to go)? That's right - almost never. Cross the border to Austria however, and it is a very different story!!

Switzerland tends to do most of its speed "enforcement" (read: revenue generation) by the use of fixed camera installations. These tend to be placed in places where safety has little to do with it, but are good places to catch motorists unawares. No doubt you are full aware of this, so I'm preaching to the converted . In contrast to Australia (at least New South Wales) fixed cameras can only be placed in sections which have a proven accident record (i.e. a "black spot"), and three large warning signs must be placed prior to the camera. Yes, placing such warning signs would reduce the number of people caught, thereby reducing the revenue generated. This would seem illogical, unless the goal is to save lives rather than prop up a budget. That said, plenty of mobile patrols and camera cars are deployed there, making the average Australian motorist's life a misery (unless they like driving at the speed limit). Mind you, the limit in towns is usually 60 or higher, so it's not quite as oppressive.

Anyway, I'm getting off the track a little here, but my main point is that you would like a radar detector to detect fixed camera installations. The problem here is that they are not very effective at doing this. Many installations catch you from behind, meaning that the signal can only reach your radar detector by reflecting off something else, and usually by the time this happens it is too late. The other problem is that a camera only has to detect the speed of a car right in front of it, therefore it only requires a very power level to do this. When a policeperson makes a speed trap they may be checking the speed of cars up to 1km away, meaning that the radar signals are much easier to detect.

Now consider that most camera installations are switching to laser. The detectors can detect laser as well, but you usually have about 0.5 seconds to react, and your only hope is that a hand held laser gun is being used, which means that the beam is moving around giving you at least a couple of seconds early warning. However in the case of fixed cameras the beam is fixed, so you'll have no warning at all.

Additionally, when using a detector in built-up areas you'll get a lot of "noise" from various sources, most of this noise in the X-band (your detector should have the option to disable X-band), but there is still a fair bit of noise in the K and Ka band as well (the same used by modern radar). This effectively makes your driving experience, well, irritating. I got to the point where I would switch it off in cities entirely.

So basically whichever way you look at it, you're screwed. Set aside part of your budget for paying these fines, and think of it like tax. The next time someone tells you about Switzerland being a low tax country point this out to them (along with expensive health insurance, AHV that you aren't going to get by the time you get old enough to claim it, etc).

If I still haven't managed to discourage you, and you are the type of guy that likes to go for the top of the range stuff, then you'll want to check this out: http://www.beltronicspro.com/rx75.html

Mark

Mark provided a very comprehensive answer however I can also say that Motorway patrol cars are almost always unmarked and are Saab or Volvo with some BMW 3 series in miserable colours such as drab blue or dark grey. Practically all cameras in Switzerland are laser which negates the use of a RADAR detector and the worst is they often set up traps where they are hidden in the bushes and the first you know about it is when they pull you over. Driving in tunnels is also a problem because they tend to have cameras in the tunnels some of which have temporary mountings so sometimes they are there and sometimes not and they have in some tunnels an average speed measure so they time you between the start and end of the tunnel and calculate the average speed. This stops you from slowing for the camera... That said the police here are very modern and very polite. They have no problem taking immediate payment via credit card and always wish you a good day. What is really bad is that common with Germany they are quite prepared to put cameras in roadworks where they could cause an accident and if you are caught by one of these then the fine is doubled. So overall I would not bother in Europe. Also be aware that merely having a detector in Luxembourg carries a penalty of up to 8 years in prison... Yes I did not believe it first time. Richard

Hi Richard,

Of course the Swiss do have unmarked cars, but my point is that this doesn't happen very often. Go over the border to Austria and you will see unmarked cars that have pulled people over, and they are busy writing a ticket. How often have you seen that here? I can only conclude that nobody is speeding (yeah right!) or there just aren't that many of them around. If there were, we'd see the sucessful one writing tickets!

That said, I was done by one about 10 years ago when I lived in Germany and got nabbed going through Switzerland. They didn't take credit cards then, but did exchange D-marks for me. Interesting that you can't pay the camera or parking fines by credit card... or anything else connected to the government for that matter, but when they want instant payment (e.g. foreigner who has been caught) then the credit card machine suddenly comes out...

Anyway, my point is that a radar detector *would* be an effective way to sniff out if an unmarked car was patrolling, but since this hardly ever happens there's no point. A bit like drink driving - have you ever been checked for drink driving? I've lived for about 12 years in Europe - never been checked a single time. Oh I've been stopped and asked to produce papers, but never to have a breath test. Sure, people say that there are checks and they do happen, but when hardly anyone can recall the last time they were checked it obviously doesn't happen very often. Just as a side note there was a recent big blitz in Zurich and they stopped drivers for all sorts of checks. 1 in 40 drivers from a random sample (of a few thousand) were over the limit. I find a figure like that a little scary to be honest. Imagine driving home on a Friday and Saturday night - you are surrounded by traffic - 1 in 40 of those cars has a drunk driver at the wheel... Probably where you live the figure is higher.. lol..

Mark

What you need is a GPS based system with locations of known cameras and likely mobile traps programmed in. A friend in England has one and it's absolutely fantastic. Covers all sorts of traps - fixed cameras, portable cameras, likely mobile speed traps and 'average speed' installations. You get a warning when you are approaching one if you are going too fast for the speed limit at that point.

I don't know if a suitable camera database exists for Switzerland though.


Most cameras here seem to be fixed. However, I've recently noticed a 'transportable' semi-fixed one on a road I drive every day plus once I've seen a mobile police unit with what looked like a laser unit. I've also seen unmarked cars pulling people over quite frequently.


Gav

Tip: If traffic is light and your car has cruise control, set it to the legal speed and engage it. When your foot isn't actually on the accelerator, there's far less desire to push the speed up a bit.


Gav

There is a database for Switzerland, and some sort of paging service to alert you to new installations. A friend of mine was right into that sort of thing. If anyone is interested I'll ask him for details.

Where have you seen these unmarked cars pulling people over quite often? I've seen it in dodgy areas where they are looking for drugs etc, but not "highway patrol".

Another interesting tidbit following on from my 3 warning signs story earlier. The government in NSW provides a list of speed camera locations for drivers:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety...ons/index.html

Now if only canton Zurich would be so kind as to provide the same service... I don't think that's going to happen somehow..

Regarding the mobile cameras in CH - I've also had some friends that said that they've been done by mobile units, though it's never happened to me. I just keep getting loads and loads of the 1km/h over the limit fines. I do try to be good, but when you get fined for being 1km/h over it gets a bit ridiculous (though they are really generous and say that the clocked me at 54, but take off 3 for tolerance). There's quite a stir about this 3km/h tolerance business among the public. Personally I'd prefer that they spent more money taking the drink drivers off the road than fining me for 1km/h!

@Lob Rockster: what is your typical fine profile (how fast, how often?)

Mark

I've seen cars pulled over by unmarked police cars a couple of times on the motorway to Bern and also the motorway to Chur (from Zuerich).

I also got pulled myself by an unmarked car, the first day I bought my car because I didn't have the new numberplate mounted on the front (hadn't got the proper mounting plate). Luckily the police were tolerant but warned if I let it go a few more days I'd be fined if caught. And I keep getting pulled all over the place on those side of the road random license/registration/tires checks - from Lenzerheide, through Zuerich to Canton Aargau a couple of times. The Aargau police do lots of checks - apparently there's a police traffic training college there or maybe they're just trying to do something about the cr*p drivers :-).

Despite all the stops (3 in a month once, but nothing for the last 12 months, thankfully) I've never been asked to do a breath test.


Gav

www.radar.ch has all fixed installations of speed cameras in the country. It however did not know about the temporary one that nailed me on the A3 nor on Seestrasse

Still, to keep the trend going, the missus was nailed going into Rapperswil over the limit. That's three flashes in less than one week.

Tolerance from the Fuzz is going down.....I tell you.

I still await the first letter mind you; I have been flashed in the tunnel in Luzern but heard nothing; maybe also because I was later than a lot of commuter traffic, the temporary ones were just flashing like muppets but the Seestrasse one I am sure would've been connected to a car and operator.

At least we don't get points, I suppose....

True, but I think if we did everyone in Switzerland would be without a license!

Mind you, the point at which you lose a licence is much lower than for example in Australia. There they are constantly making you feel the presence of the police, but 30km/h is equivalent to one third of a licence.

I got done for 130 in a 100 zone here in Switzerland and lost my licence for 1 month. The fines were about 1500, and to add insult to injury they charged me ANOTHER 300 francs just to "manage the confiscation" of my license. What did they do for my licence? Did it get room service and a newspaper every morning? I should bloody well hope so!

I wish I could think of a better solution to your problem. Some might say the solution is not to speed - but we all know that no matter how hard you try to behave yourself you are always going to run foul of the law when the tolerance is so low! When even the Swiss are complaining about something then you can't be accused of a whinging foreigner (but they will still say that anyway - even if they complain too!)

Mark

I dont think cruise control worked on that car under 60km..

Something I couldnt believe.. my friend was driving near enge and got caught by a red light camera. She only went through it after 0.2 sec of it turning red and got a 150chf fine for that one!

Thats the good thing about having a motorbike, cameras cant catch you..

I do like some of these posts. In Aargau the traffic police are particularly keen and also they do things like advertise how many licenses they have pulled this month and how many accidents there have been but by far the worst are those in Schaffhausen... So they must be the worst drivers

As regards the new 3km limit I find this interesting. I have just received a present from the friendly police in Aargau for driving at 59 and that was 4 over the limit and the normal CHF40 fine... so is this another one of those Gemeinde/Canton laws?

Also don't be so sure Motorcyclists can avoid the fines. A lot of the setups here are cameras from front and rear so they get you one way or another...

As for breathalyser tests any police officer will tell you that the first part of the test is there talking to you when you wind the window down. If there is a smell of alcohol you will be blowing... The main problem here is that it is almost socially acceptable to be caught. In most normal countries it is very socially unacceptable... That said random checking things here is a normal event so I guess they do pick up plenty of guilty drivers. In other countries like the UK where there needs to be justification there might be one in three over the limit and not one in 40.

By the way how many people have been stopped by the Border control WELL inland. It happened to me again by Aarau which must be at least 40 minutes inside Switzerland and the usual question are you carrying anything... I can't work this out.

Hi Richard,

You are right about Aagau, as much as we like to think what a bunch of Nazis they are at least by advertising the fact that they've taken away so many licences they are actually trying to prevent you from doing anything that they could fine you for. In other words, maybe they care about road safety rather than just filling their own coffers... Mind you, with all those AG number plates around, something must be done...

Now this 3km/h "tolerance" business is based on a law from the Bund, not the canton. The new limit applies to the new laser cameras, and these units do both lanes in both directions. So no matter which side you approach from it will check you approaching and leaving the camera. They are also much smaller, so easier to miss. I don't know if they are still film based, but if they have switched to digital then you no longer get the added bonus of the chance that the film might have run out.

When these cameras were introduced in Zurich (causing quite a stir!) the police in Zurich said - "We aren't happy with the lower tolerance, but this rule comes from the Bund". Yeah - I'm sure they weren't happy at all, think of all the extra money. Take your 59 which is reduced to 54. If that were a laser unti it would be 57 and bingo - no more 40 francs but 120. Most of my fines are also 59, so I'm in for a big rise in my car related expenses...

Apparently some "experts" reckon that car spedometers are not accurate enough, so you might think you are doing the limit and still get done with this lower tolerance.

It's a shame that you only get a breath test if you stink. A breath test (if done efficently) takes less time than it does to ask for the license, and the main point here is that it is quite easy for the driver to be over 0.05 without the copper smelling it on their breath.

You say random checking is a regular event? When were you last checked, and how often? Because they do seem to pick up so many guilty drivers that means something has to be done - i.e. more checks, public education, training for people in the alcohol industry, labeling of drink products with the number of standard units in the contents etc. Maybe Aargau focuses more on alcohol than other cantons (the checking drivers part, rather than the consumption of it but...)

I get checked about 3 times a year on the bridge coming into Frick where the only way to get there is either to be going onto the motorway or coming off it and I reckon they are primarily checking for Vignette...

ah well my bills are in, 180 for 105-6 -> 99 in an 80 on the motorway and 40 francs for 57 rounded down to 54 in a 50.

I'm going to hell!
On the bright side, I could've been nailed for 240 francs or even a warning on the highway. Mr Dangerous, that's me.

Just for information the laser cameras are only in cities at the moment. Apparently these cameras cost much more and only in cities is there the density of racers that justify the payback. I guess when the cost falls we will see 3km/h everywhere