Does anyone know whether you're allowed to stand in the first class carriages of trains, with a 2nd class ticket?

I was under the impression that this was ok, as you're not sitting, but I was recently gruetzi-mittenand-ed and was told that I was not - but was let off.

thoughts?

First class carriage is for first class ticket holders only...

No standing, not in the carriage, no. If it is an older-style train then outside the seating area is ok. On the new S-Bahn regional trains, you cannot even stand in the doorway of first class.

And I see their logic because the first class passengers are not paying their premium price to push past the great unwashed when getting off.

Yes, sometimes the trains are over-subscribed. I believe much of the time this happens is because the route is so busy - and the train is as long as the stations can cope with!

About four months ago, we were on a train that was packed in second class going from Fribourg into to Bern. We sat in the business class with our three small children because there was not even room left to stand in second class. We felt it was not safe to have the kids by the train doors.

When our tickets were checked my husband explained the situation and said we would move if needed. We were told to stay. He even came back to tell us we didn't have to move to second class when we entered Bern. We stayed there all the way until Bienne. It was NICE.....

I think we were a big exception because of the three kids.

Oops! I almost always stand in the 1st class section because it is such a bun fight to get on to the 2nd especially with a pushchair.

Often there is not enough space for everyone who wishes to travel and people cannot get on and off if there is already a pushchair there. I have never been told not to by conductors?!

It is apparently okay to stand by the door outside the 1st Class compartment in a 1st Class carriage. I recently had my TNV (Basel transport) ticket checked on the SBB train from Liestal to Basel and the conductor wordlessly accepted it.

wow, that is once off....lucky the guy was friendly enough to throw a freebie your way. Nice one....

We often been on packed trains (I'm talking long distance here, not trip home from the office) when we've decided to move to 1st, this is only when the ticket guy is doing the rounds cause you can then ask to upgrade when he gets to you. It's often only like 5 Sfr or so (depending on the journey ofcourse) and you're travelling in comfort. Nice to know you've got the option to upgrade without having to buy the full 1st class package...

Try taking the train from Zurich direction Geneva around 16.00 on a Friday afternoon. I've seen people sitting on the floor in first class..!! I guess first class floors must be much nicer than second class floors since I never heard anyone complaining about having paid first class fares for a place on the floor to sit.

Why do you think you can usurp the rights of the people who paid for the priviledge of first Class. That is akin to bardging into first class on an airline because coach to too full.

Pay for the right or stay off the first class cars. I have no sympathy for those who abuse the system.

I think there is a big difference between travelling long-distance 1st Class / occupying the 1st Class compartment without paying for the service and outside the compartment between toilet and door or sitting on the steps of a double-decker train for a short (one station) period of time.

For the first option people should pay extra either by buying the ticket in advance or upgrading on the train. The latter is apparently quite common among my Swiss fellow commuters. I am sure there is some law against it but I have never seen it enforced.

I like the idea of upgrading on the train. I assume you only upgrade on that train. Many of my journeys are in three parts. Don't suppose they issue you with a new ticket for the whole of your journey do they?

We use 1st class because 2nd from Kloten is like a can of sardines.

We've paid for it: if you want a quieter commute, buy a ticket.

Now, if it's the new trains then there are doors to keep the proletariat out.
And you'd be really taking the p1ss...

They do, but as a supplement to your current ticket, not an entirely new one. Don't bother worrying about whether the conductor is doing rounds, head for first as soon as it's clear that second is overstuffed. When the conductor eventually comes around, you ask for a surclassement/klassenwechsel, state where you got on, and to what station you want the upgrade. Then they check their computer, you dig out the pocket change, and everybody's happy.

(I have once returned from St. Gallen when we were explicitly told that second was full and to seat ourselves in first w/o upgrading — but this was due to SBB network problems, not a normal commute jam)

Which is true if you're on an SBB Inter-City train but if you board a regional train and see the following sign displayed you MUST have a valid ticket in your possession or you WILL be fined, no onboard upgrades and NO exceptions!



(click here for details in English)

New or old, is this officially documented anywhere?

I heard that on some stretch, paying for 1st class ticket may not even get you a seat during peak hours.

I'm guessing you must have read about it 7 posts prior in this very thread..

Standing first class [in the train]?

My colleague was running late the other day and jumped on the train just as it was about to leave. He realised that he was in first class, and immediately proceeded to walk through the cabins to get to the second class carriage, but he was stopped by a ticket inspector and issued with a fine. The ticket inspector told him that, even though my colleague had no intention of sitting in first class, he was technically travelling in first class with a ticket for second class.

The worst part is that this type of offence is recorded against your name, which apparently may cause some problems with permit renewals ...

They are not all like this , I am sure ... I got told off once for standing in the First Class standing area but did not get a fine . I make sure I stand in the 2nd class area , where I belong , nowadays

Maybe your friend didn't tell the story exactly the way it happened. I can't believe for a second it's an offense to walk "through" first class, I've seen hundreds of times after the train leaves a station people walking through first class to get to a second class car. Maybe your friend was "standing" in first class then "started" walking when he noticed the ticket controller coming his way which might then be seen in the eyes of the controller as traveling in first class.

What I wrote earlier is apparently what happened.

He was very outraged by the incident because, like you, he couldn't believe that he was not allowed to simply walk through the first class carriage.

He estimated that he was issued with a ticket within 1 minute of hopping onto the train. He knew he was in first class because it's always the closest carriage to the stairs, and he didn't want to miss the train so he jumped on with the intention of walking through to second class. The train was moving as he started to make his way through to second class, bearing in mind that there were 3 or 4 first class carriages on this train.

Perhaps it makes a difference whether or not the train is moving at the time you are walking through the first class carriage?

Regardless, I think the ticket inspector in this instance was a bit harsh. Though, I guess he/she was just doing their job. I suppose anyone can say that they were just "walking through".

To avoid doubt, people should just enter the carriage that corresponds to their ticket.