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  #21  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:01
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Yes - delivery costs.

My above illustration was just that - just to demonstrate that other costs are involved and added to the actual part price.

Why is anyone surprised?
Ok, I just freshly arrived here, please forgive my ignorance

I know my way around cars in Belgium, and for the past 5 + years have been ordering car parts (incl tires etc) online basis free delivery at home or garage of choice (usually if you spend 100 euro or more)
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  #22  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:05
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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I agree,
but the labor is charged separately on the bill and I do not object against the labor price. I just object against the price of the part which is indeed 200% of the retail price. I do not have even guarantee, that they fitted new pump there. My main question was, whether it is possible to handle the price with the garage after it was put on the bill or whether there is any legal tool to protect/defend myself if I see they used hugely overpriced item without asking me beforehand.
two options:
1. you buy the part yourself and ask the garage to fit it. you will pay labour costs only if they agree
2. you accept that a garage, like any other kind of business, adds a profit margin on the stuff they sell
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  #23  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:08
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Re: Garage cheating on price

Option 1.- Never had any problems.
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  #24  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:13
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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I agree,
but the labor is charged separately on the bill and I do not object against the labor price. I just object against the price of the part which is indeed 200% of the retail price. I do not have even guarantee, that they fitted new pump there. My main question was, whether it is possible to handle the price with the garage after it was put on the bill or whether there is any legal tool to protect/defend myself if I see they used hugely overpriced item without asking me beforehand.
Repeating myself - are you sure which part was replaced? Google for fuel pump for Octavia 1.8 TFSI gives a number of options - depending on the actual price it can cost (retail) £100 or £200.
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  #25  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:17
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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I agree,
but the labor is charged separately on the bill and I do not object against the labor price. I just object against the price of the part which is indeed 200% of the retail price. I do not have even guarantee, that they fitted new pump there. My main question was, whether it is possible to handle the price with the garage after it was put on the bill or whether there is any legal tool to protect/defend myself if I see they used hugely overpriced item without asking me beforehand.

Ask to see the invoice from the supplier. Tell them you are interested why THEY are being charged so much for item above the normal retail price. And if they have marked it up 200% then ask them to please give you a discount. They can only say Yes or No.

If they refuse to give you a discount on the part - tell them you can only pay a portion now and the balance later as such a huge sum was not in your budget.
BUT .... should they give you a decent discount you can settle immediately.

Huh? What you think of that plan?
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Old 29.01.2015, 15:22
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Ask to see the invoice from the supplier. Tell them you are interested why THEY are being charged so much for item above the normal retail price. And if they have marked it up 200% then ask them to please give you a discount. They can only say Yes or No.

If they refuse to give you a discount on the part - tell them you can only pay a portion now and the balance later as such a huge sum was not in your budget.
BUT .... should they give you a decent discount you can settle immediately.

Huh? What you think of that plan?
Garage: That is fine with us, you can collect your car once the bill has been paid in full. We won't even charge you parking!

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  #27  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:25
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Garage: That is fine with us, you can collect your car once the bill has been paid in full. We won't even charge you parking!

Oh yes, that could also happen! Depends how well OP is known in area, and by the garage, and if he`s a regular customer.
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  #28  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:26
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Re: Garage cheating on price

maybe next time discuss an approximate price beforehand or a written estimate for bigger jobs, that should be the rule with anything not only garage. You can't do it after you agreed to give them the job (with or without asking for price), be happy it's only 200 fr this time, maybe it's a rip-off but it seems normal switzerland prices (which are indeed a rip-off more often than not).
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  #29  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:34
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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maybe next time discuss an approximate price beforehand or a written estimate for bigger jobs, that should be the rule with anything not only garage. You can't do it after you agreed to give them the job (with or without asking for price), be happy it's only 200 fr this time, maybe it's a rip-off but it seems normal switzerland prices (which are indeed a rip-off more often than not).
Absolutely - the part about discussing approximate price beforehand!

It`s crazy to just hand in something for work with no idea what one will be charged.

I do sewing, and customers expect an approximate price beforehand. I`ve learned to approximate a price, but then give a maximum figure and say "Definitely not more than Sfrxxx" - and they`re very happy when bill comes to below the quote. Otherwise I`d have to justify the price afterwards. (Like having to produce invoices in the garage case above).
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Old 29.01.2015, 15:40
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Re: Garage cheating on price

I think i will ask for some discount. The garagist was clearly claiming, that the price of the item is 433 CHF. He did not mention the labour what so ever, while it was listed separately. Yes, my problem was, that I was not pushing more during the day on the price estimation.
I had my car in that particular garage already once with electric starter fault. The price of the item was 180 CHF. When I objected against the price, the guy told me, that it costed 110CHF (even showed me the bill) and that he had to call the supplier and had to pick it up personally. Resulting 70CHF added value was then totally acceptable for me and I payed. But now, he does not want to discuss. just keeps repeatig, that it is very expensive part. I think, that i will push hard on him to justify the price. Anyway, many thanks, folks, for your ideas.
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  #31  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:41
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Absolutely - the part about discussing approximate price beforehand!

It`s crazy to just hand in something for work with no idea what one will be charged.

I do sewing, and customers expect an approximate price beforehand. I`ve learned to approximate a price, but then give a maximum figure and say "Definitely not more than Sfrxxx" - and they`re very happy when bill comes to below the quote. Otherwise I`d have to justify the price afterwards. (Like having to produce invoices in the garage case above).
I hope you show them how much the thread costs?
How long it takes to thread the needle?
What about disposal of waste material?
Do you pro-rata the cost of thimbles? You should include that as a separate line on the invoice.
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  #32  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:47
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Repeating myself - are you sure which part was replaced? Google for fuel pump for Octavia 1.8 TFSI gives a number of options - depending on the actual price it can cost (retail) £100 or £200.
Yes I am sure. They replaced entire fuel pump unit (electrical motor + housing + floater with sensor) and price of brand new unit in switzerland does not exceed 210 CHF with VAT. You can indded buy it from 160 CHF. Attention, they did not need to replace the high pressure pump as this was OK. To charge for 433CHF sounds insane and even more insane, that they cannot justify the price other than repeating, that it is very expensive part. When I said, that I know, it costs max. 210 CHF, they said that it is special one, because it is pump for petrol. When I replied, that this 210 CHF is for petrol pump, they just said that it is expensive and I have to pay for it. Strange arguments.

Do you know, whether there is some legal way of defense if I am sure they charged me too high price. If they cannot justify the high cost, they did not ask me beforehand, whether i agreed upon use of super-expensive part and I do not want to get ripped-off of the 200CHF can I call the police to settle the problem?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 29.01.2015 at 16:58. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #33  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:58
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Do you know, whether there is some legal way of defense if I am sure they charged me too high price. If they cannot justify the high cost, they did not ask me beforehand, whether i agreed upon use of super-expensive part and I do not want to get ripped-off of the 200CHF can I call the police to settle the problem?
Yes - definitely do that

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  #34  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:17
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Do you know, whether there is some legal way of defense if I am sure they charged me too high price. If they cannot justify the high cost, they did not ask me beforehand, whether i agreed upon use of super-expensive part and I do not want to get ripped-off of the 200CHF can I call the police to settle the problem?
Imagine it like this:
I wanted to eat apples and know from experience that apples cost about 3 CHF per kilo.
So I bought a kilo of apples this morning. The supermarket charged 5 CHF for it.
I told the supermarket that this is way too much because they cost 3 CHF in other places.
Can I call the police to settle the problem?
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  #35  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:35
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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One is entitled to see the invoice of the article charged to the garage.
No you are not. You certainly wouldn't see it if it was my business. My margins would be my concern, not yours and certainly not something I would want my competitors getting hold of.
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  #36  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:40
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I hope you show them how much the thread costs?
How long it takes to thread the needle?
What about disposal of waste material?
Do you pro-rata the cost of thimbles? You should include that as a separate line on the invoice.
Hahahaa yes indeed - there are many "hidden" costs to providing a service.

Maintaining three sewing machines in good working order (each for specific type sewing), replacing blunt sewing needles, keeping assortment in stock (one cannot buy single needles, they come in packs of assorted sizes, with various eyes), keeping hundreds of different threads in various colour shades, zips, buttons, velcros, etc, and workable sharp scissors (that have to be regularly sharpened & regularly replaced) all adds up to being able to execute orders efficiently.

Instead of customer going out with an itemised list to shop individually for items they have no idea of, and then being left with what is not needed - I do it all for them - with MY money - that lies in drawers waiting to be used and then replaced.

So the garage has also invested in machinery/tools/oils/sprays etc for when customers work requires it.

There is no "waste disposal" in my work - the customer takes it away with them - or I recycle it.
The garages here usually usually sell their scrap to metal merchants.

(When I ran a garage in South Africa we`d put the old parts in the customers car, in the boxes of the new replaced parts, so they`d know which brand part was used - and to rid ourselves of the "scrap" - and to prevent mechanics re-fitting them illegally!)

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No you are not. Youcertainly wouldn't see it if it was my business. My margins would be my concern, not yours and certainly not something I would want my competitors getting hold of.
Well, I guess everyone runs their businesses differently.

I never had any problems showing customers the original invoices, as they reflected the recommended retail price. The discount part was MY business, and if I wanted to share it with a customer for any reason, I knew how much I could offer. Customers are also aware that they obviously are paying a mark-up from wholesale. And aware one is entitled to this mark-up.

Ripping off customers is another story. But people are not stupid enough to keep being ripped off. They simply go to other garages for a fairer deal.

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Do you know, whether there is some legal way of defense if I am sure they charged me too high price. If they cannot justify the high cost, they did not ask me beforehand, whether i agreed upon use of super-expensive part and I do not want to get ripped-off of the 200CHF can I call the police to settle the problem?
Just pay the 200Chf. Calling the police about a debt problem is stupid, imo. The garage has not committed a "crime", they have only offended you.

I`ve heard of a couple folk in my town who got this type of treatment from garages, they had to pay.

You have to give the garage a limit before leaving your car with them and tell them to contact you if they need to go over that limit. Then they know, and will contact you before doing the work, so you can take your car elsewhere.

But now they have done the work, and you have to pay. But I`d still ask to see the actual invoice, just to know which brand part they`ve fitted, to make sure it`s not a pirate part of unknown or dubious origins - (like a 2nd hand part from a scrapyard?)

Last edited by 3Wishes; 29.01.2015 at 16:58. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #37  
Old 29.01.2015, 18:15
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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No you are not. You certainly wouldn't see it if it was my business. My margins would be my concern, not yours and certainly not something I would want my competitors getting hold of.
True.

But nowadays you can buy basically anything online (which I believe is the cause of a lot of frustration for many business owners). It is not rocket science to find out what the original price of e.g. a bottle of Margaux is at a wine retailer's and compare it to the price listed on a local restaurant's menu. It is indeed the restaurant owners' business to define his margin on it and the customer deciding whether he is crazy enough to pay it.

Same applies for the fuel pump here (although slightly different with garages as they don't tend to work with menu's ).

I guess we can conclude that the OP next time should either order the replacement part online and bring it to the garage to fix it, either ask the garage for a price quote prior doing the actual repairs.
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  #38  
Old 29.01.2015, 20:03
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Re: Garage cheating on price

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifie...ndex.html#a402

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  #39  
Old 29.01.2015, 21:15
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Do you know, whether there is some legal way of defense if I am sure they charged me too high price. If they cannot justify the high cost, they did not ask me beforehand, whether i agreed upon use of super-expensive part and I do not want to get ripped-off of the 200CHF?
If you join the TCS, they will act as arbitrators on a garage bill.

If you want the car soon, pay the bill, and write on their copy, that the bill is disputed.
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  #40  
Old 29.01.2015, 21:45
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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I think garages charge more than 10%? More likely 20 to 30% with a further 2 or 3% for early settlement. Could be as high as 40%. So they can afford to give the customer some discount (as goodwill?)
No harm in customer asking for discount for cash settlement?
Eurocarparts in the UK sells parts to the trade at 30-40% of retail, I would be very surprised if the garage makes less than 100%, parts need to be ordered & possibly collected, unless the car can stay for a week.

Even John Lewis in the UK has a standard mark up of 130%, so when something is 50% reduced they don't loose money.
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