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  #41  
Old 29.01.2015, 22:56
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Re: Garage cheating on price

My garage guy asks me to see if I can find parts cheaper on internet if he finds the price too much (sometimes even for customers, as he doesn't speak English).

Also, he once quoted me a price, and the delivered priced was almost twice (CHF 200 higher), so he bitched at the supplier (Derrendinger) and got it reduced by 130.

So, have a good relationship with your local garage (he's even don stuff for free! )

Tom
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  #42  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:03
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Re: Garage cheating on price

At the risk of dragging this thread on and on, but to inform the OP for next time he requires car work at garage, despite all the excellent advice given on this thread ..... I asked my O/H (who knows nothing about car mechanics so uses garages all the time) what he would do in this instance?

He says he talks to them first, asks how much the job will be, and they look up the parts on the internet and tell him exactly what the parts cost, and how much labour is involved, before he walks away and leaves his car there for them to work on.

The OP will just have to settle the bill, and put the experience down to .... experience .
We all learn by our mistakes. We all grow old. Some of us grow older and wiser, and some just grow old.
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  #43  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:15
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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The OP will just have to settle the bill, and put the experience down to .... experience .
We all learn by our mistakes. We all grow old. Some of us grow older and wiser, and some just grow old.

Why? In the same manner, OP should have paid 433 chf, or 1833 chf, or 12 000 chf? I mean, where do you draw the line? What if they present him with the bill of 15 000 CHF, should he pay then?


Cheating is cheating, be it for 100 or 1000 chf. A decent garage, or a handyman should be able to explain and justify his invoice. You don't simply expect to be cheated; a presumption is that the work is done correctly and that the charge is fair. If the invoice appears not to be fair, it should be justified. That way everyone is happy. (and if the company charges 100% on internet price due to their work, that is also ok, but should be easy to explain).
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  #44  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:35
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Why? In the same manner, OP should have paid 433 chf, or 1833 chf, or 12 000 chf? I mean, where do you draw the line? What if they present him with the bill of 15 000 CHF, should he pay then?


Cheating is cheating, be it for 100 or 1000 chf. A decent garage, or a handyman should be able to explain and justify his invoice. You don't simply expect to be cheated; a presumption is that the work is done correctly and that the charge is fair. If the invoice appears not to be fair, it should be justified. That way everyone is happy. (and if the company charges 100% on internet price due to their work, that is also ok, but should be easy to explain).
The garage is under no obligation to demonstrate how they priced the job - they should show a breakdown of costs and that is it. If the OP had wanted to pay 150-200chf for a fuel pump he should have supplied the part - he didn't, the garage bought one**, applied their premium, and have billed accordingly.

Your average garage in Switzerland trades on its name - and its customers tend to be local. They would not tolerate someone massively overcharging if they know the guy in the next village does the work for half the cost.

**If you take a part to the garage they will fit it - but will not be liable if the part is faulty, it fails to fix the problem or it is the wrong part entirely. They also have the advantage that they can source most parts very quickly - main dealers have parts arriving mid/late morning after the cars have been inspected first thing.
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  #45  
Old 30.01.2015, 15:36
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Why? In the same manner, OP should have paid 433 chf, or 1833 chf, or 12 000 chf? I mean, where do you draw the line? What if they present him with the bill of 15 000 CHF, should he pay then?


Cheating is cheating, be it for 100 or 1000 chf. A decent garage, or a handyman should be able to explain and justify his invoice. You don't simply expect to be cheated; a presumption is that the work is done correctly and that the charge is fair. If the invoice appears not to be fair, it should be justified. That way everyone is happy. (and if the company charges 100% on internet price due to their work, that is also ok, but should be easy to explain).
I agree with you.

The garage, as I wrote previously, should be open and justify their price - at least by showing him the "Lieferschein" (delivery note) so he can verify which brand part has been used, and then he can argue about the price if it`s the exact same part/brand as he said, with a "decent" mark-up in price for supplying it.

As an example of a neighbor of mine. Her car wouldn`t start, she phoned the garage for help (just around the corner from her) - mechanic came and took her car away.
When she went to collect it they said they`d fitted a new battery.
Her old battery was not even one year old, but she accepted that.

Next day her car still would not start. She phoned them again.
Again they fetched it.
Dud battery again (?) Another new battery again.

3rd day, car wont start. Same story, but this time they kept her car overnight. Next day she got a bill for SFr800, with a scribbled invoice she could not understand.

She paid. She had to. She took her car to another garage to check it out, telling them her woeful story. They found some cable was frayed, replaced it, nominal charge - she now patronises this garage, and has learned to talk to them first, and they talk to her before going ahead with repairs - giving the full price - beforehand.
.......................
By the way - Did you know? Guarantees on new parts are a standard 2 years, in Switzerland. One does not need a written guarantee. But one needs the invoice giving the date/part number/supplier/fitter.
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  #46  
Old 30.01.2015, 23:02
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Why? In the same manner, OP should have paid 433 chf, or 1833 chf, or 12 000 chf? I mean, where do you draw the line? What if they present him with the bill of 15 000 CHF, should he pay then?
This. Is there any legal rights for the consumer? I had a friend take his van to a shop, asked for a quote to replace his inner CV boot (he had the new boot).

Shop called back and said 500CHF. He asked to call them back so he could discuss.

I told him to say no, as we were going to do the timing belt later anyways.

He called back, and the shop said "already did it".

He ended up paying (Swiss guy, seemed to not really be upset, I was red faced furious), but really, where is the line? The shop can say "1000CHF"... "and we already did it". Where is the line? 10000CHF?

If you negotiate a price up front, are they beholden to it? Is the consumer protected at all?
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  #47  
Old 30.01.2015, 23:56
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Re: Garage cheating on price

Sounds like a relatively good value learning experience to me. CHF400 for a CHF200 part? That's a bargain.

This is how it works:

1. Customer brings car to garage.
2. Garage orders replacement fuel pump from Derendinger - normal price plus 50%.
3. Garage fits part and adds 30% markup.
4. Garage invoices customer for part and labour.
5. Customer posts complaint on EF.
6. Lots of EFers post opinions.
7. Customer pays invoice.
8. Customer drives car home.
9. Customer learns lesson - do repair himself next time.
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  #48  
Old 31.01.2015, 01:03
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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2. Garage orders replacement fuel pump from Derendinger - normal price plus 50%.
A couple years ago, I got a battery at Derendinger, organized by a friend, CHF 107.

Six months later I went to by another, identical, CHF 270.

Don't blame the garage.

Tom
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  #49  
Old 31.01.2015, 01:19
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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A couple years ago, I got a battery at Derendinger, organized by a friend, CHF 107.

Six months later I went to by another, identical, CHF 270.

Don't blame the garage.

Tom
It's called inflation my friend.
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Old 31.01.2015, 07:18
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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It's called inflation my friend.
No, it's called Switzerlanded. Just across the border batteries are less than half price in Germany and in France. Why make these Swiss middlemen richer?
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  #51  
Old 31.01.2015, 19:13
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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No, it's called Switzerlanded. Just across the border batteries are less than half price in Germany and in France. Why make these Swiss middlemen richer?
Running any business in CH will not necessarily make you richer , you have a market almost 10 times smaller & have to pay your staff twice as much. Nothing stopping you becoming a middleman if you think it's so easy. Ever heard of economies of scale?
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  #52  
Old 31.01.2015, 21:32
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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No, it's called Switzerlanded. Just across the border batteries are less than half price in Germany and in France. Why make these Swiss middlemen richer?
Because, unless you're very unlucky, you benefit from the same system yourself. My salary here is ridiculously high on current exchange rates, given that it was something like 2.4 chf/gbp when I first came over here and negotiated it, so although I do more purchasing in France than Switzerland (we do live there much of the time, after all), when I do need to get something done here (in the mountains now, as most weekends) I simply accept that proportionally it's only as much of my income as it would be if I worked in France and did the same thing there.

Some people just seem to want to have their cake and eat it - sure, go ahead and use the system to your advantage when you can, but complaining when you can't is just sour grapes.
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  #53  
Old 31.01.2015, 23:22
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Re: Garage cheating on price

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Do you know, whether there is some legal way of defense if I am sure they charged me too high price. If they cannot justify the high cost, they did not ask me beforehand, whether i agreed upon use of super-expensive part and I do not want to get ripped-off of the 200CHF can I call the police to settle the problem?
1) demand to see the broken parts they took out. Seeing them is no guarantee, but if the garage can't produce them it "smells"
2) demand for the invoice to show exact parts name/number and manufacturer/brand. Have a different garage verify, or do so yourself while you have two trustworthy witnesses watch and check against the invoice

If you can prove that the invoice is wrong demand the surcharge back, or else (don't mention sueing, but rather, that you'll publish your bad experience in every conceivable manner until hell freezes over).

Btw, if they threaten to keep your car until you pay they may commit coercion, which is punishable.
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