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Old 17.03.2015, 22:51
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for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

After a winter of not driving, the battery of my motorcycle (BMW R1150R) was obviously empty. So I have charged it but in the evening it still wasn't powerful enough to start.

I am using a BAAS BA80 charger that can do max 800mAh per hour and the battery should be 19 Ah.

I started charging at about 10 in the morning. First time tried to start at about 15, then again at about 18 and 20. All with no success.

Should I just charge it more or is the battery dead? According to my understanding, the boxer needs quite some energy to start but not sure how much.
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Old 17.03.2015, 22:59
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

Leave it on charger for 24 hours. Time=19Ah/0.8A=23.75h.

Unless battery is chemically gone beyond point of no return
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:08
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

Have you checked each cell's electrolyte level?
Top up with distilled water if necessary, above the level of the plates, which should not be exposed.

Although, if the level(s) is low, it may already be too late and the battery may be cooked.

Worst case scenario and you need a new battery, Polo is considerably cheaper than most alternatives for heavy duty beamer batteries.

http://www.polo-motorrad.ch/de_ch/mo...ml?mybike=6556

Also, if you don't use your bike over winter, it should be permanently connected to a trickle charger, which can be found from Landi or Aldi for about 30 chufs, or less.

Comme a:
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Last edited by TiMow; 17.03.2015 at 23:21.
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:22
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Have you checked each cell's electrolyte level?
Top up with distilled water if necessary, above the level of the plates, which should not be exposed.

Although, if the level(s) is low, it may already be too late and the battery may be cooked.

Worst case scenario and you need a new battery, Polo is considerably cheaper than most alternatives for heavy duty beamer batteries.

Also, if you don't use your bike over winter, it should be permanently connected to a trickle charger, which can be found from Landi or Aldi for about 30 chufs, or less.

Comme a:
Unfortunately, I can't charge it permanently at my parking space.

I think it is a gel battery but not sure as it is placed under the tank. Not looking forward to change it myself for that reason and wondering what the dealer will charge.
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:25
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Unfortunately, I can't charge it permanently at my parking space.

I think it is a gel battery but not sure as it is placed under the tank. Not looking forward to change it myself for that reason and wondering what the dealer will charge.
Batteries can be removed

See the link I added for new batteries.

Probably different for newish beamers, but on my '88 GS I can have the tank off in about 60 secs. - no tools required (unless you count the end of a flat headed screwdriver to encourage the fuel pipes off the taps).
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:28
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Batteries can be removed

See the link I added for new batteries.

Probably different for newish beamers, but on my '88 GS I can have the tank off in about 60 secs. - no tools required (unless you count the end of a flat headed screwdriver to encourage the fuel pipes off the taps).
I did it before on a F650GS but have the impression this is more difficult.
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:33
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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I did it before on a F650GS but have the impression this is more difficult.
It shouldn't be.
Given the nature of any bike, the tank is the second thing to be removed (after the seat), for most maintenance jobs.

Fuel pipes off, breather pipes underneath unattached, and some kind of fixing (bolt or clip) at saddle end. Should just be two rubber bushes that fit into slots at headstock end.

Google it - there must be a YT 'How to ...' video.
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:33
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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I did it before on a F650GS but have the impression this is more difficult.
I did replace xenon light in my sedan once which must have been more pain in the ass than motorbike's battery replacement.







Have fun.
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:43
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

Car batteries and motorcycle batteries, in concept, are not that different.

When a car battery is drained below 10v it has its lifespan reduced at minimum of 25%. If it goes below 9v is reduced more than 50%, and below 8v is unrechargable anymore.

E.G. When the alternator dies, it stops charging the battery so the battery is drained below 8v and then is gone. If the alternator dies, your car runs on battery for doing the spark so is discharged in a matter of driving hours. Then the car suddenly stops and you need to call a tow-car. That's why a dead battery normally means an underlying alternator problem (and that's something that still today, despite what the mechanic says, can be repaired and not replaced)...

Motorcycle batteries uses a reduced version of car's. The only way to keep it up to charge point is having a charger were it monitors power on the battery and stops charging it when the battery does not need to receive any more current.

As you've said you can't do it where you park it, you may take the battery out and keep it charging at your place (only weights about 3kg, is not like a car battery...). As I've said, once below 8v, you can easily dump it as it will not charge anymore....

Have a look to one of these. Norauto sells them in the other Europe where CH is not into (France, Germany, Spain...). Is not that expensive, but surely here it will.

In concept it has a circuit that monitors at battery and switches charging off when battery is above 13.1 and reconnects when below 12v. If you are a bit skilled with electronics you can easily make the circuit.
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:50
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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below 8v is unrechargable anymore.
Depends on the charger.

Mine (self design) has brought back batteries from 4V, or less. Many times.

If it's really dead, short it out, and recharge. Several times.

I pretty much have to do this yearly with the battery in my ST2, the others overwinter fine.

Tom
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:51
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Car batteries and motorcycle batteries, in concept, are not that different.

When a car battery is drained below 10v it has its lifespan reduced at minimum of 25%. If it goes below 9v is reduced more than 50%, and below 8v is unrechargable anymore.

E.G. When the alternator dies, it stops charging the battery so the battery is drained below 8v and then is gone. If the alternator dies, your car runs on battery for doing the spark so is discharged in a matter of driving hours. Then the car suddenly stops and you need to call a tow-car. That's why a dead battery normally means an underlying alternator problem (and that's something that still today, despite what the mechanic says, can be repaired and not replaced)...

Motorcycle batteries uses a reduced version of car's. The only way to keep it up to charge point is having a charger were it monitors power on the battery and stops charging it when the battery does not need to receive any more current.

As you've said you can't do it where you park it, you may take the battery out and keep it charging at your place (only weights about 3kg, is not like a car battery...). As I've said, once below 8v, you can easily dump it as it will not charge anymore....

Have a look to one of these. Norauto sells them in the other Europe where CH is not into (France, Germany, Spain...). Is not that expensive, but surely here it will.

In concept it has a circuit that monitors at battery and switches charging off when battery is above 13.1 and reconnects when below 12v. If you are a bit skilled with electronics you can easily make the circuit.
Valid points, but if the bike has just sat over the winter months, the battery will have slowly discharged, through non use.

So, not an alternator problem, but probably just an old defective battery, which will probably need replacing.

Incidentally, the trickle charger, I attached above, has a cut out when max.capacity is reached, and only restarts when the charge drops - it also has a quick charge setting for a discharged battery - all for about 29 chufs.

OP, if you can use a booster box or jumper to try to get it running. If the red battery light doesn,t go away, after starting, then new battery it is.
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Old 17.03.2015, 23:59
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

Another question for the experts, my scooter's lead-acid battery is as dead as a dodo and needs replacing. One site suggests lithium ion as a replacement, would this be advised??



I'm more thinking about having a potential bomb under my jacksie I use LiIon batteries for my RC planes and always charge them in a fireproof pouch in case of explosion.
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:00
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Depends on the charger.

Mine (self design) has brought back batteries from 4V, or less. Many times.

Tom
Is the battery lasting as it should??? I bet you a beer* that it does not charge to 100%... not even close to it... and it does not last several years...

How does your design look like? (curiosity) what is the principle behind? when battery is that low, charge is ramping up gradually...?

P.S.: I don't mind to pay a beer if I'm wrong, but in cars you never ever let the battery go below 8v, as it will last less than a half life-span it should....
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:01
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Is the battery lasting as it should??? I bet you a beer* that it does not charge to 100%... not even close to it... and it does not last several years...
You lose.

This one is 7 years old now.

Tom
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:05
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Another question for the experts, my scooter's lead-acid battery is as dead as a dodo and needs replacing. One site suggests lithium ion as a replacement, would this be advised??



I'm more thinking about having a potential bomb under my jacksie I use LiIon batteries for my RC planes and always charge them in a fireproof pouch in case of explosion.
While I like reducing weight in my bikes (lots of CF and magnesium, even the wheels), I've heard too many scare stories about LiPo's on bikes (burning down the garage, etc.).

I suppose that if you never run a tender you'll be OK.

Tom
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:06
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Another question for the experts, my scooter's lead-acid battery is as dead as a dodo and needs replacing. One site suggests lithium ion as a replacement, would this be advised??



I'm more thinking about having a potential bomb under my jacksie I use LiIon batteries for my RC planes and always charge them in a fireproof pouch in case of explosion.
Wouldn't have thought it necessary on a scooter.
Know nothing about them, other than they're bloody expensive (about 3x more).

Splash out on a gel one, if you must - but I would just replace with the same and a trickle charger, for times of non-/minimal-use.

..... and check the levels regularly, and top up as required - especially when it's hot.
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:07
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Another question for the experts, my scooter's lead-acid battery is as dead as a dodo and needs replacing. One site suggests lithium ion as a replacement, would this be advised??



I'm more thinking about having a potential bomb under my jacksie I use LiIon batteries for my RC planes and always charge them in a fireproof pouch in case of explosion.
I would not play with those... I would stick to the traditional lead-acid battery. By the way, check that your scooter has 6 or 12 volts. Small motorcycles have (as far as I recall) 6v instead of 12v. If is cost saving what you are looking for, I bet you a beer LiOn are expensiver that the equivalent PB-Acid traditional ones.

In a ICE (internal combustion engine) there is heat as result of the combustion and heat is not a good friend of LiOn batteries. Tend to explode.
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:08
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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You lose.

This one is 7 years old now.

Tom
Ok! I owe you a beer! When! ?
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:18
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

Leaving a pretty much flat battery on charge for few hours isn't going to do anything. It takes about a day or more to bring it up.
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Old 18.03.2015, 00:19
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Re: for the experts: motorcycle battery dead?

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Wouldn't have thought it necessary on a scooter.
Know nothing about them, other than they're bloody expensive (about 3x more).

Splash out on a gel one, if you must - but I would just replace with the same and a trickle charger, for times of non-/minimal-use.

..... and check the levels regularly, and top up as required - especially when it's hot.
Gel is fit and forget. Lead acid where u need to check levels is like having guys in front of cars with a red flag.
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