Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20.04.2015, 21:27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
canadaguy has no particular reputation at present
Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Hi, all,

I am Canadian and have a Canadian driver's license. I have lived in Geneva for over a year now. I understand that I can no longer use my Canadian license to drive in Switzerland. I don't intend to convert my license to a Swiss one, as it's not worth the hassle and I don't plan on being in Switzerland for more than a few more years.

However, my girlfriend and I would like to take a drive up through France to Belgium. Our plan is to hop over into France and rent a car there, so that I will only drive in France and never in Switzerland. However, I'm not entirely sure whether this is kosher. Sites like these (1, 2) suggest that I'm inside the letter of the law, but it definitely feels like I'm being a bit dodgy: although I haven't been in France for one year, I've been in Europe for one year, not my licensed country of origin. Does anyone know whether I am OK to do this?

Thanks in advance!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20.04.2015, 21:54
monkeyboy76's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Luzern
Posts: 263
Groaned at 4 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 139 Times in 71 Posts
monkeyboy76 has earned some respectmonkeyboy76 has earned some respect
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
I have lived in Geneva for over a year now. I understand that I can no longer use my Canadian license to drive in Switzerland. I don't intend to convert my license to a Swiss one, as it's not worth the hassle and I don't plan on being in Switzerland for more than a few more years.
Sorry, I'm not Canadian, but my understanding is that a Canadian License needs to be renewed every year. You say you have been here for a year already and plan on being here a few more. So to me it sounds easier to convert your Canadian license, rather than trying to renew it each year in Canada?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank monkeyboy76 for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 20.04.2015, 22:36
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,761
Groaned at 484 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 4,018 Times in 1,997 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
Hi, all,

I am Canadian and have a Canadian driver's license. I have lived in Geneva for over a year now. I understand that I can no longer use my Canadian license to drive in Switzerland. I don't intend to convert my license to a Swiss one, as it's not worth the hassle and I don't plan on being in Switzerland for more than a few more years.

However, my girlfriend and I would like to take a drive up through France to Belgium. Our plan is to hop over into France and rent a car there, so that I will only drive in France and never in Switzerland. However, I'm not entirely sure whether this is kosher. Sites like these (1, 2) suggest that I'm inside the letter of the law, but it definitely feels like I'm being a bit dodgy: although I haven't been in France for one year, I've been in Europe for one year, not my licensed country of origin. Does anyone know whether I am OK to do this?

Thanks in advance!
It's really not a big deal to change a Canadian license to a Swiss license, even for a year !
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 20.04.2015, 23:41
FunnyBone's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 497
Groaned at 24 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 709 Times in 326 Posts
FunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

True that. A few forms to fill out, and about a couple of weeks of waiting to receive your new Swiss licence. A bit longer if their computer systems are down and you need to mail in your forms.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21.04.2015, 14:43
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 198
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 114 Times in 70 Posts
Caryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of many
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, I'm not Canadian, but my understanding is that a Canadian License needs to be renewed every year. You say you have been here for a year already and plan on being here a few more. So to me it sounds easier to convert your Canadian license, rather than trying to renew it each year in Canada?
Quote:
View Post
Sorry, I'm not Canadian, but my understanding is that a Canadian License needs to be renewed every year. You say you have been here for a year already and plan on being here a few more. So to me it sounds easier to convert your Canadian license, rather than trying to renew it each year in Canada?
A Québec license is valid 8 years, with a fee payable each year because licenses are issued by a provincial insurance agency. For someone with a clear driving history the annual fee is around 100 $C. (My friend paid 90.11 $ last year.)

Q12 : Est-ce vrai que la validité du permis de conduire peut s’étendre jusqu’à 8 ans?
R : Oui, depuis le 1er octobre 2014, la Société a commencé à délivrer des permis de conduire dont la validité s’étend graduellement de 4 à 8 ans.
http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/faq/faq_permis.php#q12

The restrictions on driving in Switzerland apply only to Switzerland. If you have a Canadian license you can drive as a tourist anywhere else in the world unless there is some unique local law or, as in Japan, you are required to have an international driving permit (really a translation of your Canadian provincial license only valid if presented together with that license.) Or so I am told by my colleague who is a professional driver of very expensive cars with trade (i.e. dealer, transporter) plates. He has licenses from everywhere but, he admits, not Switzerland. On the other hand, he makes insurance companies very rich because he's never wrecked a car.

If you are going to rent a car, he says, tell the car rental agency everything. In writing. And if you don't have a Platinum or Black Amex card and don't have car insurance of your own, buy collision damage waiver. His advice, not mine. Although I will say that the one time I accidented a rental car (not my fault, but I would say that, wouldn't I) and I telephoned the agency they said that it's typically the renters who DON'T take CDW who have the accidents.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21.04.2015, 15:09
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,781
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,094 Times in 6,293 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Whilst the hire company won't care or notice, you have to be legal in your country of your main residence, so if the shit hit the fan & the French police investigate you could be charged with driving without a valid license.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 21.04.2015, 15:15
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 5,062
Groaned at 40 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 7,138 Times in 3,241 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
The restrictions on driving in Switzerland apply only to Switzerland. If you have a Canadian license you can drive as a tourist anywhere else in the world unless there is some unique local law
Germany. You need a driving license which is valid at your place of residence.
Fev §29 Abs. 3 Lit. 5.
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/fe...198000010.html
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 21.04.2015, 15:21
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,840
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,510 Times in 6,686 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

I think the key thing here is whether the OP would like an answer they want to hear or an answer which is legally correct.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 21.04.2015, 16:02
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 198
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 114 Times in 70 Posts
Caryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of many
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
Germany. You need a driving license which is valid at your place of residence.
Fev §29 Abs. 3 Lit. 5.
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/fe...198000010.html
I'm not sure that's a correct interpretation, but I am far from a native speaker of German, a language I studied in school only.

In any case, assuming I'm reading the German correctly, it isn't even up-to-date with the current version of the EU Driving Licence Directive: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/energy_trans...licence_en.pdf (unofficial explanation)

It used to be that an EU licence was valid in every other EU country without being exchanged, up to age 70 if the licence was valid that long. Now EU licences must expire after 10 or 15 years, among other changes.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but my friend says his UK licence (based on his taking a theory and practical tests) is valid whether or not he lives in the UK. And another EU licence, issued before that country joined the EU, would be valid -- except that he never took any tests for it.

Of course when one drives for a living one has to be legal. And tell his insurance company all the facts. Driving (say) a Ferrari, or even with a Ferrari on a trailer, one is a target for every policeman and every car thief.

I think Fev §29 Abs. 3 Lit. 5 relates to suspended licences. EU law, as I read it, restricts the holding (as the USA and other countries do for their states/provinces/cantons) of more than one licence from within the federation. In the USA that's not strictly true as Florida issues snowbird licences valid only in Florida to Canadians and people living in other states. The whole point was -- my friend tells me -- to keep those with DUI-suspended licences from driving anyway. Which they often do, but at least not under "colour of right".

I may be wrong, in which case please just consider this a discussion point. Also the rules may be different for what we call in the USA "chauffeurs' licences" that, depending on category, allow the driving of taxicabs, buses and commercial vehicles.

There is also the point that when my friend drives with trade plates the insurance is on the plate, not on him. His personal liability policy is secondary. When he rents a car he is very careful on this point: if anything happens to the car, his fault or not, the rental agency will want to charge for the time the car is in the shop and can't be rented. CDW or good personal insurance or one of those premium Amex cards deals with that. His personal insurance would be primary, both for liability and for collision, in either of those cases.

He added this point: Swiss licences are a perennial problem for dual-resident drivers. If you live and work in the UK 6 months and in Switzerland 6 months, each country wants you to have its own licence because Switzerland (obviously) is not subject to the EU Driving License Directive. But exchanging every 6 months is impractical. The last thing he wants to do, he says, is argue with a policeman who is telling him he is in an irregular situation.

Thank you to those who have comments. We are eager to learn. I wish my German were better than it is.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21.04.2015, 16:04
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 198
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 114 Times in 70 Posts
Caryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of many
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
CDW or good personal insurance or one of those premium Amex cards deals with that. His personal insurance would be primary, both for liability and for collision, in either of those cases.
Correction: I think CDW pays first, before your personal insurance, for damage to the vehicle.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 21.04.2015, 16:09
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 198
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 114 Times in 70 Posts
Caryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of many
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
If you live and work in the UK 6 months and in Switzerland 6 months, each country wants you to have its own licence because Switzerland (obviously) is not subject to the EU Driving License Directive.
This isn't quite right either since I think you can drive for 12 months on a foreign licence. There is a problem and it may be otherwise when you habitually live in 2 countries at the same time. I just described it wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 21.04.2015, 16:16
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,781
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,094 Times in 6,293 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
This isn't quite right either since I think you can drive for 12 months on a foreign licence. There is a problem and it may be otherwise when you habitually live in 2 countries at the same time. I just described it wrong.
It's not an issue as long as you have a CH one & remain a CH resident. You can be UK resident & be present less than 20 days in the tax year.
To get a UK license or any EU license you have to have been resident for at least 6 months.......if you actually read the form 182 days is not enough.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21.04.2015, 16:39
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 198
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 114 Times in 70 Posts
Caryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of many
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
It's not an issue as long as you have a CH one & remain a CH resident. You can be UK resident & be present less than 20 days in the tax year.
To get a UK license or any EU license you have to have been resident for at least 6 months.......if you actually read the form 182 days is not enough.
I agree on that, mostly. But once you have a UK licence you can keep it forever., or until it expires but your test certificate (if you don't lose it) remains good. You are right on one point: my friend has a paper licence and he can't exchange it for a plastic one until he spends 6 months in the UK (or lies, and has a passport that doesn't show entry and exit stamps...)

That's the weakness (he just told me) about UK licences: unlike Switzerland or France you don't register with the city hall (or commune office, anyway) so you don't have a piece of paper, other than your passport, to prove your status.

The 6 months is EU law -- again to make it harder for DUI-suspended licence holders. (In the USA there is a DOT register for DUI suspensions, and has been for a number of years.)

The issue (Swiss vs. UK or EU licence, etc.) doesn't arise much apparently for employed people. But arises from time to time among retirees and the self-employed. In France and Switzerland (unlike the UK) (diplomats are not routinely issued, and don't need to have, local licences. But that's another story.

I'm afraid I'm going off on a tangent unhelpful l to the OP. Forgive me, but we are very interested in how this stuff works in practice. I was with my friend a few months ago and he tendered 3 of his licences to a Florida Hertz agent and they took ... the UK one. Maybe it was one-upmanship on the part of them both.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24.04.2015, 13:06
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 198
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 114 Times in 70 Posts
Caryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of many
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

I guess as so often I posted stuff I think is interesting but doesn't relate to the OP's question.

I was thinking about it and the statement somebody made that the license a tourist uses might have to be issued by his or her place of residence or domicile, etc.

So I looked up the French Government statement on the subject which is very short:

Vous pouvez conduire temporairement en France avec votre permis délivré par un pays extérieur à l'Espace économique européen (EEE), sous certaines conditions. Les règles qui vous sont applicables varient suivant votre situation : court séjour, installation ou poursuites d'études en France.

Court séjour en France

Si vous venez en France pour un court séjour (pour des vacances par exemple), vous pouvez conduire avec votre permis. Il doit être valide et être rédigé en français ou accompagné de sa traduction ou d'un permis international.


http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/p...9.xhtml#N1008E

I had not heard of the French rule that a (non-EEA) driving license not in French must be accompanied by a notarised translation or an "International Driving License".

But the French Embassy in Washington also warns about that rule:

You may drive with a valid U.S. driver’s license if it is accompanied by a notarized translation in French. It is strongly recommended that you carry an International Driving Permit. You must be 18 years of age or older to drive in France. (More information may be found here).
http://www.ambafrance-us.org/spip.php?article376

Anyway many Canadian licences (including Ontario http://bit.ly/1Ey4MM9 ) are written in both English and French, and Québec's is solely in French.

(Italics and boldface added by me.)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24.04.2015, 14:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
canadaguy has no particular reputation at present
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Thanks for all the help, everyone.

Alright, the takeaway as I understand it is that I would be fine to drive in France as a tourist as long as I get my driver's license translated. (My license is from Alberta and in English only.) This would not be true in Germany.

My Canadian license doesn't expire every year---it's good for five years. (And even if it did expire on a yearly basis, I renewed it over Christmas, so I'd still be good to go.)

I don't want to exchange my Canadian license for a Swiss one because I'll have such little use for it. It seems like a needless headache. Especially since I've been in Switzerland for over a year so I would need to take a test.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 24.04.2015, 14:35
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,840
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,510 Times in 6,686 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for all the help, everyone.

Alright, the takeaway as I understand it is that I would be fine to drive in France as a tourist as long as I get my driver's license translated. (My license is from Alberta and in English only.) This would not be true in Germany.

My Canadian license doesn't expire every year---it's good for five years. (And even if it did expire on a yearly basis, I renewed it over Christmas, so I'd still be good to go.)

I don't want to exchange my Canadian license for a Swiss one because I'll have such little use for it. It seems like a needless headache. Especially since I've been in Switzerland for over a year so I would need to take a test.
Post back if you have an accident and the insurance company refuses to pay.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24.04.2015, 15:25
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 5,062
Groaned at 40 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 7,138 Times in 3,241 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
View Post
It seems like a needless headache. Especially since I've been in Switzerland for over a year so I would need to take a test.
No test needed as long as you have not been here for more than 5 years. Even then a test is not mandatory if you can prove sufficiant driving practice.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27.04.2015, 12:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,059
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,803 Times in 1,962 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
Germany. You need a driving license which is valid at your place of residence.
Fev §29 Abs. 3 Lit. 5.
This is correct, but incomplete in the sense that validity is defined differently for locals or foreigners. If you reside abroad you need an International Drivers license along with your foreign license, both to be presented to the authorities upon request (basically the same as in France which shouldn't be too surprising, I would expect the same requirements for all EU countries).
See Fev §4 paragraph 2

However, I'm not sure if it's a good idea by OP at all, in general. Since by swiss law he would have needed to convert his license his canadian paper may no longer be worth anything. Granted, swiss law per se has no effect in the surrounding countries, but there may be treaties to that effect. Just a thought.

Honestly, I fail to see why OP didn't convert it. Within the first year of residence it's just a formality, but it grants you the certainty of legality.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27.04.2015, 12:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,059
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,803 Times in 1,962 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

Quote:
Germany. You need a driving license which is valid at your place of residence.
Fev §29 Abs. 3 Lit. 5.
This is correct, but incomplete in the sense that validity is defined differently for locals or foreigners. If you reside abroad you need an International Drivers license along with your foreign license, both to be presented to the authorities upon request (basically the same as in France which shouldn't be too surprising, I would expect the same requirements for all EU countries).
See Fev §4 paragraph 2

However, I'm not sure if it's a good idea by OP at all, in general. Since by swiss law he would have needed to convert his license his canadian paper may no longer be worth anything. Granted, swiss law per se has no effect in the surrounding countries, but there may be treaties to that effect. Just a thought.

Honestly, I fail to see why OP didn't convert it. Within the first year of residence it's just a formality (not sure about later dates), but it grants you the certainty of legality.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 28.04.2015, 17:22
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 198
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 114 Times in 70 Posts
Caryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of manyCaryl has earned the respect of many
Re: Driving in France after having lived in Switzerland for a year

I have found on line "Convention sur la circulation routière Conclue à Vienne le 8 novembre 1968 ... Entrée en vigueur pour la Suisse le 11 décembre 1992" which seems to deal (especially in "Chapitre IV: Conducteurs d'automobiles; Art. 41 Permis de conduire") with issues mentioned in this thread.

It's at https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...244/index.html with links to German and Italian versions. The Web site of the UN Economic Commission for Europe has the English-language version: http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/t...n/crt1968e.pdf

Hope somebody finds that useful.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
canada, france, license, rent, switzerland




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Renting in France, driving in Switzerland hmclifford Transportation/driving 20 29.11.2014 01:00
Opening a new bank account in Switzerland after having left ddejay Leaving Switzerland 10 09.12.2009 15:43
Unemployment benefits & legal status after having job contract on hold for 1 year Ad_Astra Employment 0 06.10.2009 18:55
Drinking, Driving, Smoking and Having Sex in Switzerland... Zva General off-topic 12 14.05.2009 02:28
Landlord reference / moving to a different apartment after a year in Switzerland? alsbergt Housing in general 6 10.06.2008 23:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0