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Old 03.05.2015, 23:11
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Sports car - Multi owner approach

Hi Folks,

Is there any multi-property car clubs here in CH?

I mean:

Just consider a multi-owner house, which can be used for a given period of time along the year by the (many) owners.

Is there any similar here in Switzerland with sports cars?

let's say half a dozen of folks we want to share a 911... or a bentley continental...

I am pretty sure I am not inventing the wheel, so I assume there's something already working I can join...

Do you know something like that I could join?

In advance, thanks a million!
LLaP
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Old 03.05.2015, 23:33
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

my neighbour has a (his second) Ferrari F12. And a Continental. And some other cars.

I don't think he's interested in sharing.

If you're interested in a 911 or Bentley then look in the used market, you can get some good cars there.
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Old 03.05.2015, 23:40
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

An interesting question actually. Some ski châlets are sold here as 1/4 shares- but the legal aspects, insurance and management has to be done really well to make it work. But why not for cars, especially luxury end?

I would be much more interested in the same question about doing the same for a Motorhome in fact. Near Pontarlier in France there is an agency that rents Motorhomes which are owned by private people and hired out for substantial part of the year, and used by owners for the rest.
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Old 03.05.2015, 23:41
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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my neighbour has a (his second) Ferrari F12. And a Continental. And some other cars.

I don't think he's interested in sharing.

If you're interested in a 911 or Bentley then look in the used market, you can get some good cars there.
Well, obviously he doesn't need this kind of product...
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Old 04.05.2015, 01:13
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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I would be much more interested in the same question about doing the same for a Motorhome in fact. Near Pontarlier in France there is an agency that rents Motorhomes which are owned by private people and hired out for substantial part of the year, and used by owners for the rest.

Could you please give the name of this business? I've been looking for camper rentals in CH but could find only companies renting their own at very high prices.
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Old 04.05.2015, 06:50
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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Well, obviously he doesn't need this kind of product...
Ok, joking aside: You know what the fastest car in the world is, right? A rental car. Sharing a performance car with somebody else will give me not the sense of ownership it takes to maintain it properly.

But since the continental is basically a VW that might actually work. Now you only need another four football players who did not get the sort of contract they'd hoped for...
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Old 04.05.2015, 08:27
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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Ok, joking aside: You know what the fastest car in the world is, right? A rental car. Sharing a performance car with somebody else will give me not the sense of ownership it takes to maintain it properly.

But since the continental is basically a VW that might actually work. Now you only need another four football players who did not get the sort of contract they'd hoped for...
This is Switzerland, you can't go fast.
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Old 04.05.2015, 08:30
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

Gary Strang sometime in the 90s: "Sharing is when you can't afford one each of something."

The Swiss took this message to heart and invented the wechselschild - allowing your average Urs or Jens to own a Range Rover for the week and a Ferrari for the weekend.
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Old 04.05.2015, 08:36
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

Timeshare sportscars - now that's an interesting prospective sales venture.
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Old 04.05.2015, 08:55
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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This is Switzerland, you can't go fast.
I know that the Swiss often feel like they are on an own planet, but Germany is just 30 mins away for most of them...
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Old 04.05.2015, 08:56
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

We had a similar thread this some time ago.

New Car Club in Zurich
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Old 04.05.2015, 09:03
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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Timeshare sportscars - now that's an interesting prospective sales venture.
This is older than regular car sharing. I'm not sure whether there is or was such business in CH, but around 10 or so years ago it was fairly common in other countries. It started together with ownership sharing of private planes and yachts, however for sportscars this business has never been a success.
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Old 04.05.2015, 10:33
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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This is older than regular car sharing. I'm not sure whether there is or was such business in CH, but around 10 or so years ago it was fairly common in other countries. It started together with ownership sharing of private planes and yachts, however for sportscars this business has never been a success.
Classic Car Club Manhattan, Gotham Dream Cars, and the pioneer P1 International, all have proven that it can be a success.

CCCM quite hot the last couple of years, and their good connection with Jalopnik and the YouTube /Drive network have done lots to their promotion.


P1 is 15 years old, the first one I've heard of, and it seems they have an affiliate in Geneva with a decent enough roster.


So it can be done, but as everything it needs a market and proper execution.
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Old 04.05.2015, 11:10
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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however for sportscars this business has never been a success.
Unlike of course yacht and jet charter companies which are famous for being EXTREMELY profitable...
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Old 04.05.2015, 12:10
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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Could you please give the name of this business? I've been looking for camper rentals in CH but could find only companies renting their own at very high prices.
Here you go, their prices off-peak are very good compared to Swiss prices.
Jougne is above Yverdon-Vallorbe, on the road to Pontarlier. They are right on the bend, left as you get into Jougne.

http://www.doubsloisirs.fr/
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Old 04.05.2015, 13:53
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

Not a bad idea, but probably will not work as a business. That P1 thing is outrageously expensive. Perhaps 4 "friends" could do this together and buy a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for CHF 100'000.00 (25K each) and then split the running cost between them.

It costs about 12'000.00 a year to run a "super car". I base this on the following yearly cost:

Insurance 3'000.00
Annual service 1'500.00
Taxes 600.00
Parking 1'800.00
Other 1'000.00
Major service 2'000.00 (Done every 4 years at a costs of 6'000.00 to 8000.00)
Tires 2'000.00 (Every 4 years at a cost of 8'000.00)
Total 11'900.00
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Old 04.05.2015, 14:11
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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Not a bad idea, but probably will not work as a business. That P1 thing is outrageously expensive. Perhaps 4 "friends" could do this together and buy a Ferrari or a Lamborghini for CHF 100'000.00 (25K each) and then split the running cost between them.

It costs about 12'000.00 a year to run a "super car". I base this on the following yearly cost:

Insurance 3'000.00
Annual service 1'500.00
Taxes 600.00
Parking 1'800.00
Other 1'000.00
Major service 2'000.00 (Done every 4 years at a costs of 6'000.00 to 8000.00)
Tires 2'000.00 (Every 4 years at a cost of 8'000.00)
Total 11'900.00
You forgot the depreciation of the car.

THis is how P1 calculates it to be (in GBP and a bit over the top maybe.):


A comparison with the cost of owning and running a Ferrari FF is shown below:
Example: Ferrari FF, now 12 months old, with just 2,750 miles and one full service. Purchase price when new of £265,000 and a value today of £175,000.

Cost of running a SupercarOwnershipP1 MembershipDepreciation (based on the above example)£90,000£0Insurance (based on a 40 year old male living in London with maximum no claims bonus)£5,000£0Annual service (main dealer)£2,500£0Other running costs (tyres, brake pads, valeting, storage, road tax etc.)£2,000£0Cost of money (£265,000 invested @ 6.5%)£17,225£0P1 Membership with average of 40 days use£0£13,500Total Annual Cost£116,725£13,500*Cost Per Mile£42.44£6.75


Source: http://p1international.com/p1-intern...2%80%93-why-p1
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Old 04.05.2015, 14:26
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

I did not want to get into the whole depreciation thing, as it depends on the car and how many miles are put on it. A 2008 Ferrari 430 will not depreciate as much as a new Speciale for instance.

I based my numbers on actually owning a Ferrari, so I am not too far off, but there is always a risk of the car catching fire or the engine blowing up, expensive F1 pump or transmission issues etc. Not sure how much a 12 month guarantee costs, or even if it is possible on an 'older' super car.
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Old 04.05.2015, 14:36
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

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I based my numbers on actually owning a Ferrari, so I am not too far off, but there is always a risk of the car catching fire or the engine blowing up, expensive F1 pump or transmission issues etc. Not sure how much a 12 month guarantee costs, or even if it is possible on an 'older' super car.
My "supercar":
1,500chf insurance (annual = 3,000chf insurance for 2 cars on wechselschild)
550chf road tax (as above - and it is the "other" car that dictates the tax)
1,100chf maintenance (battery, power steering return pipe clip, wipers, suspension adjustment and alignment)
0chf service (complimentary)
1,150chf fuel (give or take)

TOTAL: 4,300chf for 6,000km of driving
Depreciation: zero - actually looks like it has appreciated 25% in a year
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Old 04.05.2015, 14:58
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Re: Sports car - Multi owner approach

Obviously there are different opinions in regards to 'super cars'.
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