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  #21  
Old 03.07.2015, 11:30
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Re: Cycling on the road

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If you're turning right I think you should do it, no? because cyclists often ignore the fact that the car has the right turning signal on.
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Nope. Blocking the lane with your car is illegal.
Overtaking a car with set turn signals is illegal.
Art. 10 Abs. 1 VRV
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  #22  
Old 03.07.2015, 11:41
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Re: Cycling on the road

Once again I despair of my fellow cyclists. On my bike ride home the other day (yes, even at 35C ), I witnessed:
  • Many with no helmets
  • Jumping red lights
  • Jumping from kerb to road to kerb again, depending on traffic
  • Cycling on the pavement
  • No signals
  • Texting
No wonder motorists are pissed off with cyclists in general.
Having said that, I was also nearly cut up by a right-turning car and several cars passed me so close I could have reached out and touched them; that is scary, especially when it's an HGV.
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  #23  
Old 03.07.2015, 13:07
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Re: Cycling on the road

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Overtaking a car with set turn signals is illegal.
Art. 10 Abs. 1 VRV
§10 talks about ordinary overtaking ("überholen"), which is to happen on the left (SVG §35.1, "Es ist rechts zu kreuzen, links zu überholen.", bypass/pass on the right, overtake on the left).

VRV §40.3
Other vehicles may use the bicycle lane provided they don't hinder bicycle traffic.
VRV §42.3
Bicycles may pass a vehicle line(?) on the right if there's enough space.

So §40.3 makes sure there's enough space for the bike to pass by on the right.

Often, the bicycle lane (BL) only runs until the white line that signals "don't drive beyond" if the traffic light has you stop, the BL is interrupted and only starts anew on the crossings other side. Thus when turning right and needing to stop, e.g. because of pedestrians crossing, there's no BL you could block to begin with.
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  #24  
Old 03.07.2015, 13:48
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Re: Cycling on the road

Doesn't mater if left or right, or on separate lanes. It is still Überholen according to the Fedaral Court: "Ein Überholen liegt nach der bundesgerichtlichen Rechtsprechung vor, wenn ein schnelleres Fahrzeug ein in gleicher Richtung langsamer vorausfahrendes einholt, an ihm vorbeifährt und vor ihm die Fahrt fortsetzt, wobei weder das Ausschwenken noch das Wiedereinbiegen eine notwendige Voraussetzung des Überholens bildet " BGE 114 IV 56

Because overtaking a vehicle which is about to turn is forbidden no body gets hindered. Also a vehicle turning right must keep as far right as possible Art. 36 Abs. 1 SVG.

But, there is something else. Sometimes the BL is solid just before an intersection. Then it is clear: a car is not allowed to cross it.
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  #25  
Old 03.07.2015, 17:49
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Re: Cycling on the road

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Many with no helmets
so?
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  #26  
Old 03.07.2015, 19:00
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Re: Cycling on the road

I ride a road bike a lot, and I always use cycle lanes. However cycle paths I only use with a road bike if I feel that the risk of a fine outways the danger that the cycle path my have (poor pavement, gravel, etc).
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  #27  
Old 03.07.2015, 21:37
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Re: Cycling on the road

Unlike motorists who always stick to the rules, never use their mobile phones while driving, never speed and never gamble with amber traffic lights.

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Once again I despair of my fellow cyclists. On my bike ride home the other day (yes, even at 35C ), I witnessed:
  • Many with no helmets
  • Jumping red lights
  • Jumping from kerb to road to kerb again, depending on traffic
  • Cycling on the pavement
  • No signals
  • Texting
No wonder motorists are pissed off with cyclists in general.
Having said that, I was also nearly cut up by a right-turning car and several cars passed me so close I could have reached out and touched them; that is scary, especially when it's an HGV.
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  #28  
Old 04.07.2015, 16:07
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Re: Cycling on the road

You leave out the important stuff. Here's the full paragraph:

"Nach der bundesgerichtlichen Rechtsprechung liegt ein Überholen im Rechtssinne vor, wenn ein schnelleres Fahrzeug ein in gleicher Richtung langsamer vorausfahrendes einholt, an ihm vorbeifährt und vor ihm die Fahrt fortsetzt. Weder das Ausschwenken noch das Wiedereinbiegen ist eine notwendige Voraussetzung des Überholens (BGE 104 IV 196 E. 2 mit Hinweisen). Gemäss Art. 35 Abs. 1 SVG ist links zu überholen. Nach Art. 8 Abs. 3 VRV darf der Fahrzeugführer auf Strassen mit mehreren Fahrstreifen (siehe dazu allerdings BGE 94 IV 126) oder beim Verkehr in parallelen Kolonnen rechts an andern Fahrzeugen vorbeifahren, wenn sie nicht halten, um Fussgängern den Vortritt zu lassen. Gemäss Art. 36 Abs. 5 VRV darf der Fahrzeugführer auf Autobahnen und Autostrassen nur beim Verkehr in parallelen Kolonnen rechts an anderen Fahrzeugen vorbeifahren. Nach der bundesgerichtlichen Rechtsprechung darf der Fahrzeuglenker, der zum Zweck des Rechtsabbiegens rechts einspurt, rechts an geradeaus fahrenden Verkehrsteilnehmern vorbeifahren (BGE 104 IV 198 E. 3c)." [emphasis mine]

"According to federal verdicts (Rechtsprechung), overtaking in the sense of the law applies when a faster vehicle passes a slower one. [..] According to article 35.1 overtaking is to happen on the left side. According to article 8.3 VRV the driver, on roads with multiple lanes or with more than one Kolonne (line? queue?), the driver may pass the other vehicles on the right, provided they don't stop to give right of way to pedestrians. [..]"

In short:
"überholen" (overtaking) happens on the left while "vorbeifahren" (by/passing) happens on the right.

Since a BL is a lane of its own, the part with multiple lanes applies. So with or without a BL bicycles may pass on the right, the difference being that blocking the bikes' path is legal if there's no BL.
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  #29  
Old 05.07.2015, 09:59
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Re: Cycling on the road

Urs, the defense you are using, just passing vs. overtaking was used many times in the federal court. All with the same result. Federal court set them straight, said that passing by is a special exceptional case of overtaking and permitted only some specific mentioned cases.

However, I think until we have a judges ruling we will disagree. And until we have such a ruling, I will block a dashed bike lane with my car before a right turn.
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