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Old 21.07.2015, 17:31
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Is this another Swiss rip off

Perhaps someone far more intelligent than me can give me a logical answer.
Flights Zurich to Funchal. Book with and pay Swiss. Flight operated by Edelweiss. Exactly the same flight, different prices. Surely you don't have to trawl every company that may be on the same flight to get the best price. My logic, forget Swiss and pay Edelweiss, don't bother with Business class the perks are so minimal you hardly notice them and the worst part, told at Funchal you cannot come into the business lounge because you are with an economy airline, but if you were with Swiss, you could come in. Swiss happily took my money when booking. Air Berlin next time or TAP.
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Old 21.07.2015, 17:40
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Air Berlin are not an economy company?

When booking it tells you who you're flying with and sometimes it's "operated" by someone else. Are you certain that booking with Edelweiss was cheaper anyway? Maybe all "swiss" flights to Funchall are actually Edelweiss.

So, long story short, the answer is most likely "no".
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Old 21.07.2015, 17:47
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Just checked both websites and it is cheaper with Edelweiss for exactly the same flight.
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Old 21.07.2015, 17:49
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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Perhaps someone far more intelligent than me can give me a logical answer.
Flights Zurich to Funchal. Book with and pay Swiss. Flight operated by Edelweiss. Exactly the same flight, different prices. Surely you don't have to trawl every company that may be on the same flight to get the best price. My logic, forget Swiss and pay Edelweiss, don't bother with Business class the perks are so minimal you hardly notice them and the worst part, told at Funchal you cannot come into the business lounge because you are with an economy airline, but if you were with Swiss, you could come in. Swiss happily took my money when booking. Air Berlin next time or TAP.
Sorry, not a Swiss issue at all. Agreed it's annoying but there is a vaguely logical reason.

Edelweiss are not Swiss, they are a subsidiary of Swiss, but do not have their Star Alliance membership. Edelweiss bears the operating cost, Swiss as marketing agent will pay Edelweiss for seat allocation on this flight.

So TAP were "right" in refusing you access if you were flying Edelweiss ticketing and Edelweiss metal.

On Star Alliance, the operating company is what is key. Edelweiss are affiliated with but not the same operator as Swiss. Technically, even if you booked the same flight through Swiss, you shouldn't get access to a Star lounge, but the TAP attendants may not have noticed that.

It'd be the same if you e.g. booked through Singapore and one leg was operated by Silkair - sorry, no entitlement to lounge access (though again, the lounge attendants may not notice if the booking code is SQ).
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Old 21.07.2015, 19:42
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Same applies with lots of other airlines. . Good example is air france and klm link up... I found the klm price a lot cheaper than AF despite it being an AF flight.
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Old 21.07.2015, 19:45
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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Sorry, not a Swiss issue at all. Agreed it's annoying but there is a vaguely logical reason.

Edelweiss are not Swiss, they are a subsidiary of Swiss, but do not have their Star Alliance membership. Edelweiss bears the operating cost, Swiss as marketing agent will pay Edelweiss for seat allocation on this flight.

So TAP were "right" in refusing you access if you were flying Edelweiss ticketing and Edelweiss metal.

On Star Alliance, the operating company is what is key. Edelweiss are affiliated with but not the same operator as Swiss. Technically, even if you booked the same flight through Swiss, you shouldn't get access to a Star lounge, but the TAP attendants may not have noticed that.

It'd be the same if you e.g. booked through Singapore and one leg was operated by Silkair - sorry, no entitlement to lounge access (though again, the lounge attendants may not notice if the booking code is SQ).

Don't feel too bad @Norton. Swiss / Lufthansa aren't playing nice with Star Alliance either. I'm a Global Services flyer but was denied entrance to the Frankfurt arrivals lounge (Lufthansa) because "I was not on a Global First fare" (United C fare only out of the US ).
When I called the Global operator, they told me that they were technically correct due to Swiss /Lufthansa having changed their contract at the start of '15. What the hell? Either play in the alliance or don't.
Well, its not enough for me to resurrect my Delta Diamond card yet, but I sure don't fly S/L if I don't have to.

edit: I don't mind Easy Jet for my DE and UK trips -so suck it Lufthansa/Swiss Air!
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Old 21.07.2015, 19:46
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

But sometimes the prices level out again once by the time you get to the actual booking stage. One booking engine may offer you a flight with check-in luggage and free choice of seat and another may offer you the same flight cheaper but without that and by the time you've selected those as extras the price will in many cases have adjusted to more or less the same level.

(unless that is, you don't want those extras)
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Old 21.07.2015, 19:47
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Thanks for the reply, makes sort of logical sense, its just a bit annoying when you think you are flying Swiss, who have given reasonable service in the past.
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Old 21.07.2015, 19:52
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Its getting a bit annoying when you pay the premium for business class which we have been lucky enough to do for a few years now to find the "perks" gradually being done away with and the price staying the same. I know the margins are tight but looking after the premium payers could pay off in the long run.
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Old 21.07.2015, 20:01
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Business for short haul is a waste of money.. unless you don't mind paying a huge premium for an orange juice newspaper and a mini meal.
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Old 21.07.2015, 20:02
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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Its getting a bit annoying when you pay the premium for business class which we have been lucky enough to do for a few years now to find the "perks" gradually being done away with and the price staying the same. I know the margins are tight but looking after the premium payers could pay off in the long run.
The sad thing is, many premium payers don't really have much choice in the matter. Especially if its company travel agencies that do the bookings.

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Business for short haul is a waste of money.. unless you don't mind paying a huge premium for an orange juice newspaper and a mini meal.
Absolutely true. For many business travellers its purely a prestige thing, plus it helps them rack up airmiles on their loyalty cards.

Of course many employers are also under pressure to cut costs and fewer people are using business than did in the past.
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Old 21.07.2015, 21:09
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Its also annoying you don't get miles and more points on flights booked via swiss but operated by edleweiss or helvetica
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Old 21.07.2015, 21:17
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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Business for short haul is a waste of money.. unless you don't mind paying a huge premium for an orange juice newspaper and a mini meal.
Totally agree, but for reasons I wont go in to, we need to travel business class.
Just glad that at the moment at least Emirates that we use back and forth to Aus. still provide what it says on the tin.
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Old 21.07.2015, 21:23
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

http://www.kayak.com/

https://www.google.com/flights/

... and the likes.

Is anybody ever using anything else?!
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Old 21.07.2015, 21:50
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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Business for short haul is a waste of money.. unless you don't mind paying a huge premium for an orange juice newspaper and a mini meal.
You are also paying for the flexibility. The ability to change your flight, get a refund, turn up to the airport early and be put on the next flight rather than wait for yours. Jump the check-in queue, security queue, boarding queue etc etc.
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Old 21.07.2015, 22:17
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

Of course there are the fringe benefits but most don't use them
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Old 21.07.2015, 22:51
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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The sad thing is, many premium payers don't really have much choice in the matter. Especially if its company travel agencies that do the bookings.



Absolutely true. For many business travellers its purely a prestige thing, plus it helps them rack up airmiles on their loyalty cards.

Of course many employers are also under pressure to cut costs and fewer people are using business than did in the past.
And some are expected to walk off the plane after 8, 12 or 16 hours and directly into a negotiation.
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Old 22.07.2015, 13:02
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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Don't feel too bad @Norton. Swiss / Lufthansa aren't playing nice with Star Alliance either. I'm a Global Services flyer but was denied entrance to the Frankfurt arrivals lounge (Lufthansa) because "I was not on a Global First fare" (United C fare only out of the US ).
When I called the Global operator, they told me that they were technically correct due to Swiss /Lufthansa having changed their contract at the start of '15. What the hell? Either play in the alliance or don't.
Well, its not enough for me to resurrect my Delta Diamond card yet, but I sure don't fly S/L if I don't have to.

edit: I don't mind Easy Jet for my DE and UK trips -so suck it Lufthansa/Swiss Air!
It's not just LX and LH though. As I understand, arrivals lounges are a different animal altogether and most I've seen seem to be restricted to long haul passengers flying cash premium tickets on the specific airline. No need for reciprocity. For departure lounges, access can also be restricted - provided they also offer an equivalent lounge for paying alliance flyers and *G flyers.

For example, Singapore do this with the Changi departure lounge. Now don't get me wrong, the Gold lounge there is still pretty outstanding - but compared to the Silverkris for paying SQ business class? Not a spot.

If you care that much before booking, FlyerTalk is a forum full of fellow nerds (used affectionately) who know the intricacies much better than me


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And some are expected to walk off the plane after 8, 12 or 16 hours and directly into a negotiation.
And then right back again after less than a day and into the office! Still don't get business short haul except for the flex point (and the lounge access, though many business fliers will have this anyway through status), and I would never fly premium long haul for leisure - but I couldn't have done some of the gruelling business trips I used to do without a flat bed.
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Old 22.07.2015, 13:59
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

@Veltliner.

Totally with you.

My boss and I both do a respectable amount of travelling each year and we trade tips and go on FlyerTalk once in a while if we can't figure it out ourselves. As he puts it, "traveling is part of our job, so we better be good at it."

B-Travel for me is all about routine. I should be focused on why I am going rather then how to get there. So, you learn how long it should take to get from A-B at each airport, where the clubs and good food are, what seats are good when heading East or West (depending on configuration), what to expect at security, what dress clothes can I wear that won't set off scanners, etc, etc. I don't consider it nerdy, but others* might.

So it was routine for me to fly out Sunday evening from the US, shower when I arrived at Zurich or Frankfurt and then head into work for the day. When that suddenly changed, well - damn, that just screwed up my Zen.

*Then again, they are still fumbling through their carry on for travel liquids when I am already thorough security and on my next call.
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Old 22.07.2015, 14:10
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Re: Is this another Swiss rip off

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So it was routine for me to fly out Sunday evening from the US, shower when I arrived at Zurich or Frankfurt and then head into work for the day. When that suddenly changed, well - damn, that just screwed up my Zen.

*Then again, they are still fumbling through their carry on for travel liquids when I am already thorough security and on my next call.
Ah, hadn't realised it was a policy change. Yes that sucks - presume it was a code share so no LX / LH flight at the same time...

Is it just me or does the priority queue at ZRH go so much slower than in any other airport? Clearly frequent fliers taking their sweet time... if I can't dump everything ready in a tray and walk through without any more fumbling, I get annoyed at myself
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