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Old 07.08.2015, 14:50
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PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

Just to know, we were fined by PPC Immoservice when parked in a Besucherplatz, because we parked without parking card. There were no sign that we should have this card so I started a conversation with them because I don't feel 50 CHF is an acceptable amount. We were visited our friends for a couple of hours and got this envelope on our car.
They said our friends got parking ticket and should gave it to us. They forgot this, and we didn't know because of no sign.
I'll come with result.

So beware!

This is the sign what is there. Based on this only police can fine us :
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Last edited by ajcrowley; 07.08.2015 at 16:55. Reason: Pic attached
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Old 07.08.2015, 14:58
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined

Look for an official geminde sign relating to the park spaces
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Old 07.08.2015, 14:59
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined

If it says "Besucher" and nothing else how can this be legal?

The rules on parking here are pretty strict, but they're all backed up by either a default law or clear signage. Besucher is standard and clear - if they want to add more rules they should say so.

I don't see they can fine you because the friend didn't give you the card - you had absolutely no way of knowing.
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Old 07.08.2015, 15:41
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined

We have 'Besucher' parking places belonging collectively to several blocks of flats which were very often used by people visiting folk in blocks of flats on the other side of the road (even when their own visitors' spots were not all occupied). A couple of times in the past 25 years it has annoyed some occupants here enough to ask for cards to be made and distributed to all the flats. Then the onus was on the occupant to ensure that when he had a visitor, someone went out and put the card on their dashboard. In time the enthusiam waned but as extra free parking places have now been made in the area, the problem has more or less solved itself.

I doubt if anyone ever tried fining a car owner anyway, but it did mean that the Caretaker here knew which 'cardless' cars were 'cheating the system' and could remind the owners when they came back to their cars that these parking areas were only for inhabitants of the buildings on this 'estate'. Repeated offenders were then fined, not for not having a card, but for using parking which was not open to them.
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Old 04.09.2015, 08:58
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

Update: They ignored my letter, and sent again the fine. Great. I sent them again my compliments.
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Old 04.09.2015, 09:45
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

You have two options:

1) Pay the "fine" (no it is not real legal fine it is just a bill w/o any legal ground) and make some private individual or company a bit richer.

2) Do nothing and wait until you get a letter from the court. There you can state you were a Besucher[Visitor] (I assume by your use of Besucherplatz that it was marked so) and thus a Berechtigter an not an Unberechtigter as defined on the sign.
If the court fines you anyway all the money goes into the community chest. In the worst case CHF 200 fine + CHF 250 court fee, more likely is CHF 50 fine + CHF 100 court fee.

Your decision: Support a private entity or the community?

PS: For the future. Unlike normal parking ticket, where the holder of the car is ultimately liable, such a fine can only be issued against the actual culprit which parked there. Remember, family members have no obligations to snitch on each other. The one putting up the sign must prove who actually parked there. By communicating with the other party you most likely admitted your guilt. Bad.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:00
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

If you are going to go to court, you need to send registered letters to prove that you did respond and didn't just ignore their demands.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:06
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

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If you are going to go to court, you need to send registered letters to prove that you did respond and didn't just ignore their demands.
Source for that? They can not enforce their "fine" in the court. There is zero legal ground. They can only request that Mr. X should be fined because Mr. X did park w/o authorization in said spot. Mr. X has then two options claim or prove he did not park, or that he was authorized. The actual amount of the fine is up to the judge, but he is limited by the CHF 200 given in the sign.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:15
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

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Source for that? They can not enforce their "fine" in the court. There is zero legal ground. They can only request that Mr. X should be fined because Mr. X did park w/o authorization in said spot. Mr. X has then two options claim or prove he did not park, or that he was authorized. The actual amount of the fine is up to the judge, but he is limited by the CHF 200 given in the sign.
No source - just applying my experience. If you want to make a case about it, then you could be slapped with an additional [edited to lower blood pressure] fees as you did not respond or ignored requests for payment of a fine, thereby wasting the judge's/court time.

If you can show that you made the effort to engage with the company issuing the fine, at least you can say you tried to enter dialogue with them. But then you need to prove this, and a print out from your computer is less convincing than a printout with a receipt from a registered letter (which also means that the company is less likely to ignore you).
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Last edited by Carlos R; 04.09.2015 at 10:59.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:49
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

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No source - just applying my experience. If you want to make a case about it, then you could be slapped with an additional fine as you did not respond or ignored requests for payment of a fine, thereby wasting the judge's/court time.
IT IS NOT A FINE Sorry
It is just a bill which has no legal upholding. If they go the way of pursuit/Betreibung they will lose the case.
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Old 04.09.2015, 10:59
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Re: PPC Immoservice fined [friend using visitor parking space]

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IT IS NOT A FINE Sorry
It is just a bill which has no legal upholding. If they go the way of pursuit/Betreibung they will lose the case.
Better?
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