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Old 11.03.2016, 18:52
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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So, I mention 3 road deaths that were deeply close to me over the past 3 years, and you see it this way i.e. drama queen.

Lesson learned, social media abandoned.
Don't interpret a flippant remark as a reason to martyr yourself on a public forum. My comment was purely related to the fact you seem to be on a crusade against others here and aren't willing to debate your points before signing off in a huff.
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Old 11.03.2016, 18:52
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

OP, do you not find it incongruous to be able to afford cars costing hundreds of thousands of francs, but at the same time whinge about a perfectly legal fine of a few hundred or so?

For the record, my car is worth 500 CHF (that's what the garage offered me for it this week). I drive on snow and ice most days of the winter without any problem.
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Old 11.03.2016, 18:54
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Have a great weekend everyone and please drive safely, now you're OK and two seconds later....

Tekaefixe,


That post makes a completely different impression.


Fact is, even with a lawyer the charge of not being in control of the car will almost certainly stick. 120 is still too fast with snow on the ground will be their first point, their second would be that the fact that she needed to overtake a slower car should have made her aware that she was going too fast for the conditions.


I wouldn't mention (or have been using) the cruise control in that situation.


The value of the car is unrelated to the cause of the accident (there are no "bare passes" for the MFK, you either pass, or you do not). That it protected your wife makes the investment worth it.


Once you get another car I would suggest that attending a skid school would be a good idea (perhaps both of you would be an easier sell, and you will also most probably learn from it). Having experienced and practiced skidding might have avoided a great expense, not to mention frayed nerves. The skid school won't compensate for not having grown up, or experience with driving in snow, but it will help mitigate the consequence of making a mistake. Some schools have courses where you use your own car, the best plan is to do an introductory course in their car (sometimes specially prepared to simulate blowouts etc.) then do another course in your own car.


Even if she had read all the theory, a dark snowy road while she is on the way to see her husband in the hospital is most certainly the least optimal scenario to start gaining practical experience, it was probably over before she even noticed that something was going on.
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Old 11.03.2016, 18:56
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Two, yes its true I should have a safer car AWD, and I was just at the dealer sealing the contract to even safer model from another brand. A 282k AWD it is.
An AWD is not better then any 2WD in breaking and stopping in icy condition. It is just better in going forward when you want it going forward.
The only thing that makes a difference are studded tires.

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Old 11.03.2016, 18:58
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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She was driving at 120 in Cruise control and
changed lane to overtake a slower driver, again nothing illegal.
Sounds like this could be the problem right here. Truth is, no matter how much electronics, traction control and other bells and whistles your car has, you never know what it will do when hitting a slick patch. In bad weather/road conditions, turning the cruise off and focusing on the driving to be aware of the conditions will be your best chance to avoid an accident.

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Two, yes its true I should have a safer car AWD, and I was just at the dealer sealing the contract to even safer model from another brand. A 282k AWD it is.
Sounds like you are still bragging though. You can buy the latest Bentley will all the options, it will still not drive itself on icy roads. If you drive in the winter, better to invest a few kCHF in a Panda 4x4 as advised by Tom (besides you won't be able to drive too fast) or a good old subaru (my personal favorites). Traction is good, no electronics tempting you to let down your guard, and it's always easier to regain control of ~1000 kg vs 2500 kg of steel!
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:09
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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... She drives much better than many man, always safe...

... yes its true I should have a safer car AWD, and I was just at the dealer sealing the contract to even safer model from another brand. A 282k AWD it is.

Have a great weekend everyone and please drive safely, now you're OK and two seconds later....
Sigh. I saw the post/thread this morning and chose to stay out of it, but reading your second post, you clearly haven't taken on board anything anyone has said.

She obviously isn't as safe a driver as you seem to think on the evidence YOU have presented. Bad driving happens in cheap and expensive cars. It is called "driver error".

If there was mud/ice/snow on the road and in between lanes, the driver did not adapt appropriately to the conditions.

Buying a new more expensive car will not make it better. You already achieved the aim of a safe car, so why not invest in driving courses - it'll cost less that your more than expensive toy and might actually make you/your wife a better driver and be worth more in the long run.

Glad it wasn't more serious, but try to learn the right lesson from this.

Have a good weekend too!
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:15
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

The best car I ever drove on ice was a rental S40 with traction control and studded tires in Sweden ten years or so ago.

With the TC engaged (normal), I couldn't break it loose on an ice covered parking lot. I then turned it off just for the fun of it!

Anyway, I was doing 100km at 100kph twice a day for a week in ice and snow conditions on Swedish back roads (no cops around due to the weather).

But I still would never buy a Volvo.

Tom
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:18
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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If you drive in the winter, better to invest a few kCHF in a Panda 4x4 as advised by Tom (besides you won't be able to drive too fast) or a good old subaru (my personal favorites). Traction is good, no electronics tempting you to let down your guard, and it's always easier to regain control of ~1000 kg vs 2500 kg of steel!
Actualle, we've had the Panda 4x4 up to 140 on the highway!

And it only weighs 700kg, not 1000!

Tom
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:23
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Actuall, I've had the Panda 4x4 up to 140 on the highway!

And it only weighs 700kg, not 1000!

Tom


You mean without you in it, right?
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:26
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Actuall, I've had the Panda 4x4 up to 140 on the highway!

Tom
In the downhill curves of the san Bernardino?
My brother had one, I would have been scared to death to go above 120 in it.

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And it only weighs 700kg, not 1000!

Tom
I know it's quite light, my point was that it's much easier to get a smart/twingo/insert small car here back on the road than a big ass GMC Yukon that everyone loves to drive in the rural (western) states. Good luck pulling that off a ditch.
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:28
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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You mean without you in it, right?
For the weight, sure, plus it has a tiny tank, about the same size as my Guzzi (25 liters or so).

For the speed, there were two of us in it.

Tom
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:29
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

As far as i know, if you dont have property insurance (which is different from your health insurance) you get to pay a lot of fines for any kind of accident in which you damage public property
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:31
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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In the downhill curves of the san Bernardino?
My brother had one, I would have been scared to death to go above 120 in it.
I was afraid to go above 60 the first time I drove it, but we bought a vignette and went on the Autostrada, Lugano to Mendrisio, which is basically flat. The 140 was somewhere around Capolago (really flat).

And speaking of curves, the handling is far better than I expected, quite good in fact.

Tom
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:33
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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For the weight, sure, plus it has a tiny tank, about the same size as my Guzzi (25 liters or so).

For the speed, there were two of us in it.

Tom


Both pedalling as hard as you could?


The lightness helps with p=mv, until some dork goes and puts wider tires on it, then it just slithers along the top of a snowy surface.
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Old 11.03.2016, 19:39
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Both pedalling as hard as you could?


The lightness helps with p=mv, until some dork goes and puts wider tires on it, then it just slithers along the top of a snowy surface.
Indeed.

Meanwhile, my sidecar will leave it in the dust in non-winter conditions, but it has less than 1/2 the weight (320kg), and nearly twice the power (90 vs 50), but only one wheel drive, so not so great in the snow, plus has wider tires!

On the other hand, it has a top speed of 180, with four people on board!

(ok, two adults and two kids)

Tom
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Old 11.03.2016, 20:20
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Why is it that when someone asks an honest question on this forum, there's so much $ bashing?
This is English Forum Switzerland, so par for the course.
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Old 11.03.2016, 20:26
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

Like I said earlier, they are a frosty, bitchy and money envious lot on here.

Piss poor and the attitude to boot.

A throughly miserable lot, with a tumour in their collective humour.
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Old 11.03.2016, 20:45
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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So, I mention 3 road deaths that were deeply close to me over the past 3 years, and you see it this way i.e. drama queen.

Lesson learned, social media abandoned. Maybe it will touch you more if i mention the vehicles involved.
Well, you got set off pretty easy. You've been around long enough, you out to know better, like: "don't expect total strangers to read your mind and sympathize with you." Maybe teh Internetz isn't the right place for you today.

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Hi again dear friends of the forum. Thank you so much for your insight and experience.
I was asking just asking if that happened to you and the legal outcome of it so I know what to expect.

This is a great forum and easily one of my favorites. There are many great users that make the forum what it is, but I must say there are others that....well envy is a very ugly thing.

The accident wasn't with me but with my wife, she was driving at 23h in a deserted highway to pick me up at the hospital where I was recovering from surgery. I didn't mention this because I knew people would say that women cant drive and that's absolutely not true. She drives much better than many man, always safe, respecting others and the law. So do I.

She was driving at 120 in Cruise control and changed lane to overtake a slower driver, again nothing illegal. The moment she tried to change lane everything happened and she ended up outside the road with the car totaled. We say it was probably ice because there just a bit of dirty snow in both lanes.

She didn't endangered no one and if it wasn't for the car automatically calling the police and give the coordinates no one stopped to help her. I was oblivious to all of this waiting for her in the hospital.

I told the price of the car so the people sharing their experiences with me know that it wasn't some 3k car, that barely passed the annual control and with summer tires. I didn't bought the car to overtake no one but for the security, stability and comfort. Remember the car is scrap and she didn't have a single cut our bruise. That's the investment right there.

Me or she never had a single speed ticket and if we want to speed a little we do some shopping in Germany or I go to the Nurburgring.

I was automatically called a jerk because I drive a more expensive car. Well I don't remember the last time people with Lambos, Ferraris os Porsches doing silly stuff on the road but crappy car drivers well...

Anyway two things I have learned in the forum and i'm thankful for that, one there is some fine coming and since I don't agree I will just leave it to the lawyer to deal with it. He has got to eat too.
Two, yes its true I should have a safer car AWD, and I was just at the dealer sealing the contract to even safer model from another brand. A 282k AWD it is.

Have a great weekend everyone and please drive safely, now you're OK and two seconds later....
Couple of things wrong in that post. I haven't bothered to look at your profile, as Longbyt apparently did, but it's the kind of thing anyone who learns to drive in a country with winter ought to know (and anyone else ought to take some lessons or something before driving in unfamiliar conditions).

First, if it's cold enough for ice to form, you have to assume that it will, and adjust your driving accordingly. Black ice isn't something you see, but it has a miserable effect on your insurance premiums.

Secondly, she did in fact do something illegal. She crashed, which means she didn't have control of her vehicle. She failed to adapt her driving style appropriately to the conditions. You might not like it, but it's a fact.

Thirdly, she did endanger people. No one else may have been at risk at the time of the accident, but I rather doubt that was the only moment that she was driving without due care in the whole trip; she just didn't hit any external conditions (e.g. ice) when she was near someone else. That was, therefore, luck.

We all make mistakes, and I've made a few behind the wheel of a car too. Been in a couple of (light) fender benders in the US. But they were my fault, and I own up them, and I learn from them. I would suggest your wife do the same.
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Old 11.03.2016, 20:47
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Like I said earlier, they are a frosty, bitchy and money envious lot on here.

Piss poor and the attitude to boot.

A throughly miserable lot, with a tumour in their collective humour.
Nah, some of us don't feel the need to brag about how much money we can afford to waste on a car.

On first reading this thread, I was wondering why it was relevant that the car in the accident had 186k km on it. Realizing my mistake, i then wondered why it was relevant that the car cost 186k chuffs. It's not - just a way of patting one's own back and showing off to internet strangers for being filthy loaded rich.

Then the OP takes the opportunity to brag even more about his new 282k chuff car, which obviously must be crash-proof...

Maybe Op should first invest in 1k chuffs driving lessons - i'd be a pity for the 282k car to end up killing one of us 'normal' car driving plebes.
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Old 11.03.2016, 20:52
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Re: Crashed the car and of top I get a fine?? Please help

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Nah, some of us don't feel the need to brag about how much money we can afford to waste on a car.

On first reading this thread, I was wondering why it was relevant that the car in the accident had 186k km on it. Realizing my mistake, i then wondered why it was relevant that the car cost 186k chuffs. It's not - just a way of patting one's own back and showing off to internet strangers for being filthy loaded rich.

Then the OP takes the opportunity to brag even more about his new 282k chuff car, which obviously must be crash-proof...

Maybe Op should first invest in 1k chuffs driving lessons - i'd be a pity for the 282k car to end up killing one of us 'normal' car driving plebes.
I don't think the OP is bragging at all. Just ignorant in assuming more money makes things safer. In this case throwing more money at the car will not make for safer driving if the cause is driver error/ignorance.

Identify the real problem and fix that (e.g. throw money at it by getting specialist lessons, which by the way can be fun in themselves).

As for Burner, I wonder who really has the tumour in his/her tumour.
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