Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31.05.2016, 11:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,653
Groaned at 152 Times in 118 Posts
Thanked 9,576 Times in 3,220 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
never trust the auto pilot

the inevitable has happened: a Tesla on autopilot has bumped onto another car.

what would the consequence be for the driver? you are basically sitting in your car, with your hands off the steering wheel and not being in control.

could the driver be in the ironic situation of losing a suspended license for driving on auto pilot?

http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...pilot-30228076
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 31.05.2016, 11:57
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,834
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,497 Times in 6,682 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Quote:
View Post
could the driver be in the ironic situation of losing a suspended license for driving on auto pilot?
Yes (assuming that reading the small print leads to Tesla having no responsibility).

What sort of numpty drives his 150k car into a van 100% confident the car will "see" the van and avoid the collision???
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:01
Slaphead's Avatar
Moderato espressivo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,146
Groaned at 40 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 8,995 Times in 2,761 Posts
Slaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond reputeSlaphead has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Quote:
View Post
the inevitable has happened: a Tesla on autopilot has bumped onto another car.

what would the consequence be for the driver? you are basically sitting in your car, with your hands off the steering wheel and not being in control.

could the driver be in the ironic situation of losing a suspended license for driving on auto pilot?
Well obviously they're in the wrong. A driver has to be in control of the vehicle at all times, regardless of whatever assists happen to be activated.

Currently, as much as Tesla would like us to think otherwise, the auto mode is still immature, and IMO has been brought to market way too soon.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Slaphead for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:25
Don Molina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 610
Groaned at 17 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 880 Times in 372 Posts
Don Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

don't blindly trust the auto pilot just yet


FTFY


Also, Tesla instructs drivers NOT to take hands off the wheel. So the approach "I wasn't driving is not my fault", is similar to me jumping out of the car before an accident and claim that I, also, was not driving.

That's the main problem, that people that know jack shit about how to use their freaking iphones, or laptops, know approximately the same amount on how to use their cars. They don't know how the autopilot will disengage if they do something or the autopilot reacts to something, and then instead of f-ing up their Excel sheet that then a literate person has to clean up, they just f up someone's day by driving up their ass...


The driver should NEVER take hands off. Systems like these are supplementary, and yes in many cases you *could* take your hands off, but if you get in an accident while doing so, you're a dumb-ass and deserve losing your license and whatever else comes to you.

Not reacting fast enough I can understand (although distances people)
Car skidding I can understand (although tires)

"Car out of control because I think I know how to use it by in reality I don't"
That I DON'T understand.
__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Don Molina for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:30
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy McModface
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,204
Groaned at 51 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 8,096 Times in 2,954 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Aircraft autopilot/autolanding is pretty sophisticated, but you always have at least one pilot ready to take control (though they sometimes bugger it up disastrously). Why would a car driver think that their new technology in traffic should be any more trustworthy?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:37
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,834
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,497 Times in 6,682 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Quote:
View Post
Aircraft autopilot/autolanding is pretty sophisticated, but you always have at least one pilot ready to take control (though they sometimes bugger it up disastrously). Why would a car driver think that their new technology in traffic should be any more trustworthy?
Aircraft autopilot is "relatively" easy to figure out - speed, descent, weather, co-efficient of runway friction can all be calculated into a model - and off it goes.

Car autopilot is a little harder to figure out due to the interactions of "random" variable. A plane is generally not cut up but another plane coming into land. A plane generally doesn't have to come to a sudden stop because a bird's ball has flown across the path of the plane in front. If a plane swerves it is generally not going to be hitting a cloud full of people.

You are asking a system (which deals in binary) to ask a billion questions about variables and asking it to pick the best option - and get it right 100% of the time.

Autopilot car would work brilliantly - if the cars were in tunnels and isolated from an environment of random factors - or humans as we call them!
__________________
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 3,621
Groaned at 456 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 2,955 Times in 1,474 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Quote:
View Post
Currently, as much as Tesla would like us to think otherwise, the auto mode is still immature, and IMO has been brought to market way too soon.
Tesla always clearly said that their system is not made for being fully autonomous!

They keep saying this and it's indicated in their website:

"Tesla requires drivers to remain engaged and aware when Autosteer is enabled. Drivers must keep their hands on the steering wheel."
https://www.teslamotors.com/presskit/autopilot

Even Elon Musk repeated that several times when speaking in public and presenting the cars.

I don't own a Tesla () and I have seen/heard/read about that many times.


So please don't criticize them for being immature, they clearly announced it as such!
They even officially label some features as "beta".

The problem is again with poor attitude of the person who bought something very expensive and have false expectations.

And frankly, from the video it was clear that something was happening in the front and the poor driver should have quickly reacted.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 31.05.2016, 12:53
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy McModface
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,204
Groaned at 51 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 8,096 Times in 2,954 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Quote:
View Post
Aircraft autopilot is "relatively" easy to figure out - speed, descent, weather, co-efficient of runway friction can all be calculated into a model - and off it goes.

Car autopilot is a little harder to figure out due to the interactions of "random" variable. A plane is generally not cut up but another plane coming into land. A plane generally doesn't have to come to a sudden stop because a bird's ball has flown across the path of the plane in front. If a plane swerves it is generally not going to be hitting a cloud full of people.

You are asking a system (which deals in binary) to ask a billion questions about variables and asking it to pick the best option - and get it right 100% of the time.

Autopilot car would work brilliantly - if the cars were in tunnels and isolated from an environment of random factors - or humans as we call them!
I agree. This highlights this driver's stupidity even more.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 31.05.2016, 14:28
robBob's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 461
Groaned at 13 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 256 Times in 161 Posts
robBob is considered knowledgeablerobBob is considered knowledgeablerobBob is considered knowledgeable
Re: never trust the auto pilot

What a stupid warning system. A couple of beeps & then bump!

Should hear my VW shriek when some idiot cuts me off in morning traffic.

My car would of alerted me well ahead of time. With adaptive cruise control, I always get a warning signal (shriek) with more then enough time to react.

Even have "city crash", which has kicked in unexpectedly from time to time (but seldom).

I think any new car sold today with a decent crash prevention system would of avoided this!

I'm going to be careful for now on before crossing the street when I see a Tesla coming!

Last edited by robBob; 31.05.2016 at 14:49.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 31.05.2016, 14:43
microspill's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 37 Times in 31 Posts
microspill is considered knowledgeablemicrospill is considered knowledgeablemicrospill is considered knowledgeable
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Technology is far from where we anticipate it to be..

Disappointed petrol-head (electric-head) me..

microspill
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:39
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 3,621
Groaned at 456 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 2,955 Times in 1,474 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Just to illustrate the topic with an unfortunate incident.

Some Belgium citizen just died....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
trying to siphon a Tesla!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:51
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,834
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,497 Times in 6,682 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Quote:
View Post
Just to illustrate the topic with an unfortunate incident.

Some Belgium citizen just died....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
trying to siphon a Tesla!
Shocking news
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 31.05.2016, 15:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,445
Groaned at 55 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,164 Times in 1,311 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

I thought that anyone who actually bought a Tesla would have had to be on auto pilot, period.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 31.05.2016, 17:12
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Crammy15b has no particular reputation at present
Re: never trust the auto pilot

I had a Tesla for the last few months in California. The problem is that the autopilot is really built for the American road system and for normal driving - it is really impressive, but clearly that crash meant the driver wasn't paying attention.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01.07.2016, 08:49
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,536
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,662 Times in 5,515 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

First fatal crash.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36680043
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01.07.2016, 10:03
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 764
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,693 Times in 508 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

I think the more fundamental issue is that half solutions will never actually work because humans are not good at giving up half control. Either the car is fully automated and can be relied upon (within reason) to drive completely autonomously or it can never be relied upon and all the doodads and gadgets are just a mild convenience factor and the driver always has to be fully engaged.

The half solutions we have now mean that in addition to learning the handling of a particular car, the driver now also needs to learn the idiosyncrasies of whatever driver aid they wish to use. I can see this on myself, e.g. the adaptive cruise control works 90% of the time, but I have to be at full attention otherwise bad things might happen during the 10%.

It's things that you just wouldn't expect unless you have already encountered them. E.g. most adaptive cruise controls don't look behind your car. The unexpected situation can happen where if you switch to a lane with dense traffic, the car will try to increase its distance from the car in front, but won't actually factor in the distance from the car behind. Unless I turn the bloody thing off in this particular case, it will gladly crash into the car behind - or at the least cause them difficulties as they attempt to slow down and maintain distance too. You see where this is going?

So now you have to learn this shortcoming of the system which not only places cognitive burden on you, but also means that the system is not really increasing your convenience in the grand scheme of things.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 01.07.2016, 11:28
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 6,152
Groaned at 309 Times in 249 Posts
Thanked 9,529 Times in 3,870 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Tesla are saying the cameras couldn't 'see' the side of the lorry as it was light and the sky was bright, a little worrying it didn't also take into account any kind of front radar readings. But silly driver not seeing the lorry turning.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01.07.2016, 12:13
robBob's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 461
Groaned at 13 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 256 Times in 161 Posts
robBob is considered knowledgeablerobBob is considered knowledgeablerobBob is considered knowledgeable
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Its a brave new world! The scary thing will be how will the car decide who should live or die in an unavoidable collision? As for not detecting a shiny white lorry up against a hazy blue sky, completely understandable!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01.07.2016, 12:16
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy McModface
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,204
Groaned at 51 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 8,096 Times in 2,954 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Do trailers in US not have the safety barrier thing at the side to avoid deaths like this?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01.07.2016, 12:21
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,143
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,732 Times in 9,480 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: never trust the auto pilot

Quote:
View Post
Do trailers in US not have the safety barrier thing at the side to avoid deaths like this?
No.

Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seals... never trust on them... ;) martin959 Jokes/funnies 0 25.11.2013 00:37
Never trust a cricketer Nyonais Football/sports 5 09.06.2012 02:26
Adventure runs in the family for solar plane pilot Piccard The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 06.06.2012 15:57
Proud of the UK: No trust in the EU flavio International affairs/politics 51 26.01.2011 17:30
Gotta trust the pilot Caleb Jokes/funnies 39 22.11.2007 00:36


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0