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  #61  
Old 10.06.2016, 16:32
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

My take on it is:
1) The OP didn't really show contrition in their post
2) The OP didn't include all necessary information
3) The OP hasn't learned their lesson

I suspect the following would have yielded different results:

"A couple of years back I was caught speeding - 170kmh in a 120kmh zone. It was really stupid and I ended up with a 30k fine and 3 month ban. They suspended 23k of the fine for 2 years.

Last week I got caught again for speeding and have now received a form asking me to send back details of the driver. This has happened within the 2 years probation and I am worried they will request payment of the remaining 23k.

I know I did wrong but should I visit a lawyer to discuss my options? And if so do you have a recommendation in my area?"
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  #62  
Old 10.06.2016, 17:02
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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My take on it is:

"A couple of years back I was caught speeding - 170kmh in a 120kmh zone. It was really stupid and I ended up with a 30k fine monetary penalty PLUS 7k fine and 3 month ban. They suspended the 30k monetary penalty for 2 years.

Last week I got caught again for speeding with XY km/h over and have now received a form asking me to send back details of the driver. This has happened within the 2 years probation and I am worried they will request payment of the remaining 23k 30k.

I know I did wrong but should I visit a lawyer to discuss my options? And if so do you have a recommendation in my area?"
Fixed a few legal things and added one thing which would have helpped.
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  #63  
Old 10.06.2016, 17:13
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

or just avoid all the juicy drippings and ask,


"HI, I'm new here. Can anyone please recommend a traffic lawyer with experience in speeding fines who speaks XYZ and who can provide me legal counsel? Thanks for your help."

That puts a little blood in the water, but even if the sharks come to the surface (which they will, because they need the [details] to provide appropriate advice...), there is no need to feed them anything else.
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  #64  
Old 10.06.2016, 18:51
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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Let us assume it was just 1km/h over the simple fine limit. Then our OP will get a minimum 1 month ban. Depending on situation maybe a 2 or 3 month ban. Art. 16a Abs. 2 SVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a16a

If OP is super lucky the suspended 30k monetary penalty WILL not be called.

Let us assume it was in the same range as the first incident. Then a 12 month ban is the minimum. Art. 16c Abs. 2 Lit. c https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a16c

In this case and IMHO the OP has to be god like with a god like lawyer, super mega lucky and a total cluesless judge that the suspended monetary penalty is not called.
Just found out: A suspended sentence will not be revoked for contraventions /infraction. A contraventions is when the only possible penalty is a fine. Art. 90 Abs. 1 SVG an all stuff in the OBV (which I call the price list) covers traffic contraventions.

For 'serious' speeding, in normal condition where no one was endangered this means less than 19 km/h (30 km/h limit), 24 km/h (inside city), 29 km/h (outside), and 34 km/h (autobahn) over the posted speed limit.

Here the actual text, of Art. 46 Swiss Criminal Code
Quote:
Breach of probation

1 If the offender commits a felony or misdemeanour during the probationary period and if it therefore must be expected that he will commit further offences, the court shall revoke the suspended sentence or the suspended part of the sentence. It may modify the form of the revoked sentence in order to form a cumulative sentence with the new sentence in the analogous application of Article 49. In doing so it may impose an immediate custodial sentence only if the cumulative sentence amounts to a minimum of six months or the requirements of Article 41 are fulfilled.

2 If it is not expected that the offender will commit further offences, the court shall not revoke the suspended sentence. It may admonish the offender or extend the probationary period by up to one half of the duration specified in the judgment. The court may order probation assistance and impose conduct orders for the duration of the extended probationary period. If the extension begins after the expiry of the probationary period, the extended period begins on the day that it is ordered.

3 The court that judges the new felony or misdemeanour also decides on revocation.

4 If the offender fails to attend for probation assistance or disregards the conduct orders, Article 95 paragraphs 3-5 apply.

5 Revocation may no longer be ordered if three years have elapsed since the expiry of the probationary period.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a46
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 10.06.2016 at 19:29. Reason: Dammit, contraventions not misdeamours. Stupid legal speak. Luckely I aint no lawyer.
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  #65  
Old 10.06.2016, 19:11
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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Jesus Christ if I was facing a 30k fine and possible jail time you can bet your way-too-easily-offended-asses that I'd be lawyering up too. I struggle to believe that there is a single soul on these forums who would think along the lines of: "I'm about to be bent over the barrel and brutalized with a barbed club, but I'm an intensely moral person so I'll just accept the treatment without even consulting my options with an expert"
Just to be clear, you consider being sodomised with a barbed club to be on the same level of severity as a 30K fine?

However, since I have legal insurance, I'd certainly be consulting a lawyer. I'm on the income level where I could receive such a fine for being a completely reckless, moronic scofflaw, but it would certainly not be nothing to pay it. I guess that's the point.
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  #66  
Old 10.06.2016, 20:07
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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or just avoid all the juicy drippings and ask,


"HI, I'm new here. Can anyone please recommend a traffic lawyer with experience in speeding fines who speaks XYZ and who can provide me legal counsel? Thanks for your help."

That puts a little blood in the water, but even if the sharks come to the surface (which they will, because they need the [details] to provide appropriate advice...), there is no need to feed them anything else.
Is 2009 new?
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Old 10.06.2016, 20:35
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

My view on speed traps in Switzerland:

The difficulty in assessing the allowed speed limit on certain stretches of roads and the often rather devious placement of speed traps, has turned many law-abiding citizens into accidental speed offenders who pay not only hefty fines, but suffer the loss of being mobile for three-six months. Even some local policemen have a hard time supporting the harsh speeding fines.

Having said that, I have noticed that there are indeed less hormone-fuelled racers on the road than a decade ago.
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  #68  
Old 10.06.2016, 20:55
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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Lawyers in Switzerland don't cost like in Anglo-Saxon countries, and they are much better, in the average.
Based on my experience, quite true.

Tom
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  #69  
Old 10.06.2016, 21:29
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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The difficulty in assessing the allowed speed limit on certain stretches of roads
To be honest, it's dang difficult to _drastically_ be over the speed limit, after the "measurement error" rebate has been put in.

Let's see
- 30 km/h speed limit -> 55 km/h on the speedometer
- 50 km/h speed limit -> 80 km/h on the speedometer
- 80 km/h speed limit - HELLO, this is NOT the motorway!
- 120 km/h speed limit - no, no, no, this NOT a German motorway

So basically if you ride 50 km/h on your speedometer in any built up area, you will be reasonably fine. It will not destroy you in a 30 km/h zone, and at no time will you go beyond the limit elsewhere.

I do hope that any driver will be able to navigate the speed limits (temporarily) imposed on motorways.
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Old 10.06.2016, 22:05
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

If your car reads 55 when you are doing 30 it's fecked!
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  #71  
Old 10.06.2016, 22:18
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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If your car reads 55 when you are doing 30 it's fecked!
Mine does the opposite, as it reads in MPH!

Tom
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  #72  
Old 10.06.2016, 22:18
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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If your car reads 55 when you are doing 30 it's fecked!
No, but you can go 55 km/h on the speedometer and you will _not_ be totally fecked in a 30 zone. (Most regrettably, if I may add.)

If someone does go through a 30 zone, which much more often than not has been rebuilt to really make higher speeds difficult, with 55 km/h on the speedometer, then that person is seriously fecked, too.
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  #73  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:13
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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No, but you can go 55 km/h on the speedometer and you will _not_ be totally fecked in a 30 zone. (Most regrettably, if I may add.)
A speedometer can legally read any where from 0 to 10% + 4 km/h over the actual speed. For example on one of my motorbikes 55 km / h means real 53 km/h.
Measurement tolerance is either 3 km/h or 5 km/h for Laser and Radar respectively. Although Swiss speed cameras are pretty accurate to not count that the tolerance is always in your favor. It is possible that after deduction of the tolerance you have exactly the true speed. That what the tolerance is for: That you never get a citation which is above the true speed.

In my case 55 km/h, Laser, and tolerance in my favor means 50 km/h or 20km/h over. Look in Serious Speeding - the law, the fines. whre that would put me: Serious infraction, ~20 days monetary penalty, 3 month ban minimum. Bang.
In Kt. Schwyz it is even 30 days
In Kt. Zurich you may be lucky, seams they hand out monetary penalties only when you are 25 km/h over. Means you may get away with a 1 month ban.

50 in 30 zone is a very risky thing.

Specifically if you take this in account. 50 km/h speed limit -> 80 km/h on the speedometer PLUS missing a 30 sign?
Super ouch. That will put you in the criminal speeding bracket. 2 year ban and (suspended) one year jail.
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 10.06.2016 at 23:27.
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  #74  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:30
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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A speedometer can legally read any where from 0 to 10% + 4 km/h over the actual speed. For example on one of my motorbikes 55 km / h means real 53 km/h.
Measurement tolerance is either 3 km/h or 5 km/h for Laser and Radar respectively. Although Swiss speed cameras are pretty accurate to not count that the tolerance is always in your favor. It is possible that after deduction of the tolerance you have exactly the true speed. That what the tolerance is for: That you never get a citation which is above the true speed.

In my case 55 km/h, Laser, and tolerance in my favor means 50 km/h or 20km/h over. Look in Serious Speeding - the law, the fines. whre that would put me: Serious infraction, ~20 days monetary penalty, 3 month ban minimum. Bang.
In Kt. Schwyz it is even 30 days
In Kt. Zurich you may be lucky, seams they hand out monetary penalties only when you are 25 km/h over. Means you may get away with a 1 month ban.

50 in 30 zone is a very risky thing.
"50 in 30 zone is a very risky thing." Indeed, especially as there is no fore warning so when you see a 30 sign you have to bang o the brakes.

One big concern I have is about many customs posts have 20km/h signs when approaching from the German side. My concern is it is not clear where the 20 limit finishes.
There is a post in Rafz, ZH where there is a "speed limit cancelled" sign a couple of hundred metres after the office. When I crawl up to this sign at 20 then following drivers get very upset.
Many such posts have no speed limit signs at all after them on the Swiss side.
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  #75  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:32
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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"
There is a post in Rafz, ZH where there is a "speed limit cancelled" sign a couple of hundred metres after the office. When I crawl up to this sign at 20 then following drivers get very upset.
Many such posts have no speed limit signs at all after them on the Swiss side.
I hear you, have similar experiences. I slowly drive to the border control and after the control, after a couple of meters just head on to avoid being rear-ended by a faster car.........
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  #76  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:53
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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One big concern I have is about many customs posts have 20km/h signs when approaching from the German side. My concern is it is not clear where the 20 limit finishes.
Depends on if the 20 limit sign is a German on German ground or a Swiss one on Swiss ground. Means it depends where exactly the border is which is not always between the two posts. Here the actual situation:

https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=ech&...osshair=marker
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  #77  
Old 11.06.2016, 00:38
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

Indeed not very useful this forum.

I only was after the name of a lawyer specialised in traffic law/offenses as i have been speeding.

I hope all that judge me here, can say hand on heart that they never go at 67 where you can do 50 in an area you do not know, after you have been caught.

I never said i am not guilty, just i would like to talk to a lawyer to see what my options are as I need to drive as I am a full time working mum.
so not like most of your expat wife doing nothing.

Guess i will find the lawyer without all your great help.
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  #78  
Old 11.06.2016, 00:44
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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I hope all that judge me here, can say hand on heart that they never go at 67 where you can do 50 in an area you do not know, after you have been caught.
I didn't judge you, but I can say hand on heart that I've never gone 67 in a 50 zone, let alone at 67 after an adjustment.
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Old 11.06.2016, 00:51
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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I hope all that judge me here ...

... so not like most of your expat wife doing nothing.
See how easy it is?
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Old 11.06.2016, 00:53
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Re: lawyer needed for HEFTY speeding fine

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I hope all that judge me here, can say hand on heart that they never go at 67 where you can do 50 in an area you do not know, after you have been caught.
17 km/h over in a 50 zone is normally still handled according Art. 90 Abs. 1 SVG, which means a fine only. No revocation of the suspended fine.
Lucky you. In the worst case it is a minimum 4 Month ban (Art. 16b Abs. 2 Lit. b SVG) in the best case just a 1 Month ban (Art. 16a Abs. 2 SVG)
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