I’ve been meaning to write this for a while and have been prompted by some “for sale” advertisements on the forum. Lots of people seem to be looking for cheap bikes, but as with most things you get what you pay for. Unfortunately not many people have knowledge about the types of bikes out there, the ages of bikes being offered, the pitfalls and what they are worth. I’m hoping to help with the first three points.



The types of bikes I have illustrated (images nicked from Ricardo) can be seen all over the streets of Zurich, ranging from use as everyday city bikes to near “disposable” bahnvelos. Many people are surprised to find that they are likely to be between 20 and 40 years old, and have had varied lives and maintenance. The last 15 years have seen huge improvements in bicycle technology, parts compatibility and reliability (thank mountain biking), leaving older bikes obsolete and possibly unserviceable. I’ll put in point form some of the negatives of these bikes, I’ll try and keep it in simple layman’s terms.



- Due to age, even a maintained bicycle is likely to be worn out in general. At the point of “fixing or replacing one thing after another”.
- If you are not a DIY person, the Swiss labour costs of repairing these bikes can run into multiples of the purchase price.
- Many parts such as the rear wheel gears and gear changing systems are obsolete and parts very hard to find. Which means either expensive or difficult to locate.
- Swiss made bicycles will have obsolete standards. The threading (the spiral groove on a bolt) is usually “French” or “Swiss” specification. These are obsolete and no longer manufactured. Spare parts to fit will need to be old stock. Parts from modern bikes using the near global “British” specification will not fit.
- Huge leaps in brake standards have improved safety on modern bikes. The old bikes in general have poor stopping power. Avoid old “racing” bikes with extension brakes levers, they reduce the braking force you can apply and are generally indicators of lower quality bikes anyway. (see example below)



- If the tyres are old or perished (hardened and cracked) they are dangerous and should be replaced. Even with DIY this will cost around CHF40-
- Tubular/singles/colles type of tyre on racing bikes and some tourers. These are a real pitfall to the unwary and can be difficult to identify. Basically a tube sealed within the outer tyre, making a rubber “hula-hoop” which is glued on to the wheel. When you get a flat the whole hoop needs to be replaced (no easy patching of tubes). I have a friend who was charged CHF160 to replace two tyres, tubular/colle at CHF40 plus labour to install at CHF40. To be avoided like the plague! (see image below, the likely reason it is being sold with flat tyres is that it is fitted with damaged tubular/colle tyres)



- As for pricing, check out Ricardo for actual bids (not sellers inflated minimum prices) or the Veloborses. The bikes I’ve described can be had for CHF50 to 200 depending on condition and quality.

I’ve learnt this myself working friends and families old “cheapie” bikes, and would highly recommend those who care little about bikes or repairing to spend a little more on a new or near new Migros or Athleticum bike in the CHF500 range. I’m sure you won’t regret it.

Hi Yokine

All good advice but none of your photos are up..?

I suspect a lot of people get these old bikes for the retro factor/tortured genius parisian style. Give me my Specialized Rockhopper A1 Fs Comp Edt any day

Hmmm, they are hosted on Flickr. Are you blocked maybe? Anyone see them?

I realise that people buy them for all kinds of reason, heck I've just finished a couple of bikes to ride in L'Eroica! But when I see some junkers being advertised on EF for CHF200, I think I should share some knowlege!

Very true. I suppose its comparable to someone selling a dodgy car and the buyer not really even caring whether is rubbish or not.

I can see the pictures.

So, with these weird glue on tyres. Is it possible to replace them with conventional tyres and tubes, or are the rims specific to this type of tyre requiring the whole wheel set to be replaced to use conventional tyres?

No the rims are tubular/colle specific, just a smooth concave, no "hook" along the edge for tyre beads. If the hub and spokes are worth it you can replace the rim with a tyre & tube version. I've done several, and always say "never again"

You can see it on this modern version. They are still used for racing, when you have support truck with a bunch of spare wheels following you!

I guess a good rule of thumb could be:

Dont bid on anything that nobody is bidding on.

I would go further and say never buy an old bike that you havn't seen in person and taken for a quick spin. The average digicam shot on an internet auction site is only going to tell you if both wheels are still attached and the paint is still shiny. It is not going to tell you that both the wheels are warped, the gear shifters are rusted solid, the bottom bracket is making a loud grinding noise and the headset is slopping around. Even an experienced mechanic isn't going to spot this in a poor quality photo. But even an inexperienced dummy is going to realise something is wrong within 2 seconds of jumping on the bike.

Yes, you are right, but what about buying the new bikes and getting it robbed, from the SBB velo parking lots? I think in the city like Zürich Bike-stealing is a common case and also unresolved.
If you are using your bikes and expecting to park it at SBB velo parking lots, my strong recommendation is buy an old one worth 50 to 120 CHF....and don't get upset when its stolen. just buy another old one and expect it to be stolen in another year or two.

what say?

The main problem is that older bikes use normally 5 or 6 speed freewheels ( shimano IG or the older screw-on models), modern wheelsets you can get on the market for under 200 CHF come with 8-9-10 speed freewheels ( shimano HG ) that are not compatible at all with old drivetrains so you'll have to change the whole drivetrain.

It is indeed risky to buy old bikes from ricardo, but there are some "diamonds on the junkyard" you can get if you are a connaisseur.

Those particular ones would maybe not have any bids on it and the people avoid them but could result good.

I got me my "banhoff-velo" from ricardo for only CHF 85, a sporting tripple butted steel frame racing bike with a full 6 speed shimano 105 ( 1050 ) groupset. It even has "world champion" stripes on it, that AFAIK you can't put on a frame unless is endorsed by a world champion winner.

As new, like if someone bought it on the late 80's and store it at the cellar and didn't ride it.

It has collé wheels but they are in good shape, I keep it at the banhoff where I work so I commute by train and get the bike from there to the office.

here is a pic, it is very light, fast , rides smooth and it is a beauty.

Hmmmmm, do I hear a voice saying "single speed/fixie conversion?"

But yes, by the sounds of it these types of wheels are best avoided by the average person looking for a cheap city bike. It will end up costing more than the price of the original bike to sort them out.

If you like the single speed bikes you'll love this video. ( at the end of the page )

http://www.mashsf.com/

by the middle of it to the end you'll probably recognise somebody

I agree with almost everything said so far, and I think this thread is a great idea. I must say that I'm frequently surprised by the asking prices for second-hand bikes that I've seen on this forum: Bikes being offered for 100-200 CHF that look un-maintained and in need of some work.

Before I moved here, I was a graduate student in Canada. To make some extra cash, I bought, repaired, and resold old bikes like these. These 100-200 CHF bikes are like the ones that I'd pay 20-50 CHF for at a garage sale then struggle to get 50-80 CHF for after replacing any parts that were worn out (by pulling the necessary parts off of other old bikes I had) and doing a full tune-up!

If you don't have a backyard and shed full of old bike parts, these old clunkers really are almost impossible to maintain economically.

However, I agree, the brand new 500 CHF Athleticum bike is not the most appropriate thing to leave at the train station, so what choice do people have? Plus, most people have no idea what they're looking at when trying to get a new bike. So, what should someone who needs a basic bike for not too much cash do? I'm not sure what the best advice is.

I am no bike expert, but given recent experience, I would emphasise the cost of repair or even simple servicing for what appears to be a low cost purchase can well outweigh the purchase costs.

dave

Many bike shops sell used bikes, and I think that any reputable shop will make sure the bike is road worthy before putting it out for sale. You may not find the greatest bargain, but at least it will be a bike where the mechanics are sound and you shouldn't have to invest too much money in parts or service. The used bikes are usually sold very quickly so if you see one that meets your needs, best not to hesitate.

Well, this is the point most of you are missing.

A "Banhoff-velo" is a cheap bike, normally under 100 CHF, and usually around CHF 60.-

it is a disposable bike, so you can let it at the train station and don't care much if it got stolen.

If the bike breaks up and/or need new wheels or whatever, you don't go to a shop and pay a high price to repair it. You simply forget about it and get another.

That is the thing.

It is utterly stupid to get a disposable 50 CHF bike and then pay 160 CHF to repair it.

I would say that is fair advice as long as you don't compromise your safety in doing so.

dave

I have a question about a frame and didn't want to create a new thread, maybe Yokine and Woodsie could give me an opinion.

I am about to buy this frame to build a winter cross bike. It is good and good priced but it has a dent on the top tube.

I read that is usual in cross bikes to have dents there as the bar-end shifters in the handlebars eventually hit the top tube at that place.

What do you think ? could be the frame integrity compromised ? It is right to the side of the "T"

Sorry, I wouldn't have a clue, definitely a question for a dedicated cycling forum.