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  #41  
Old 18.11.2008, 11:27
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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Roundabouts are a fairly new thing in Switzerland
When was the first roundabout built in Switzerland? Please educate us.
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  #42  
Old 18.11.2008, 11:35
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

The first roundabouts in Switzerland were built at the beginning of 1990, so a lot of people did their driving test before roundabouts existed. In comparison, the first roundabout in the UK was built in 1909. Not that I am a roundabout nerd, I just googled it
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  #43  
Old 18.11.2008, 11:39
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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When was the first roundabout built in Switzerland? Please educate us.
1987 in Wettingen AG
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  #44  
Old 18.11.2008, 11:49
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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Ie: if you're coming out of the roundabout going "left" (or doing a U-turn) you "should" be indicating left as you approach/enter,
This is exactly why so many people use a left signal, they try to navigate a roundabout like a simple 4 way intersection. When you first approach the roundabout you enter by turning the front wheels to the right and not left as your indicator is now displaying, sure you will soon afterwards begin turning towards the left in a counterclockwise direction but you're already in the roundabout at that point so a left signal is useless, the only thing left to do is signal right to exit. Don't forget the drivers inside the roundabout have the right of way at all times and those approaching have to yield and wait their turn to enter anyway.
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  #45  
Old 18.11.2008, 12:05
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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If there are no priority signs then the rule is that the person coming from the right has priority. In your picture if you were the red line that would mean you need to give way to the blue line.
I find this rule very odd. Do we have any junctions like this in the UK? I can't think of ever seeing one. In Uk the red line would always have right of way because anyone coming in would be cutting accross your path. Anyone who wanted to come in would have to wait until the road was clear. There's a junction like this near the Kalkbrighte tram stop on Bardenerstrasse. I nearly had an accident there when a guy pulled out in front of me.
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  #46  
Old 18.11.2008, 12:13
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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This is exactly why so many people use a left signal, they try to navigate a roundabout like a simple 4 way intersection.
That's because until you're on it (ie: as you approach), a roundabout is a simple 4 (3/5/6/etc) -way intersection.

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When you first approach the roundabout you enter by turning the front wheels to the right and not left as your indicator is now displaying, sure you will soon afterwards begin turning towards the left in a counterclockwise direction but you're already in the roundabout at that point so a left signal is useless, the only thing left to do is signal right to exit.
The left (or right) indicator is to signal your overall intention to everyone else as you approach. Ie: to let them know whether or not you will be "crossing" their path and, therefore, whether or not they need to give way to you.

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Don't forget the drivers inside the roundabout have the right of way at all times and those approaching have to yield and wait their turn to enter anyway.
Not if they will never "cross" each other. This is the point of indicating on entry, so the other vehicles approaching know whether or not they need to give way at all.


For example, consider a simple 4-way roundabout with 3 cars approaching. Car A is approaching from the South, exiting North. Car B is approaching from the North, exiting West. Car C is approaching from the West, exiting South.

If all cars are signaling their intent as they approach (as per the rules I am familiar with in Australia, which I believe are the same in the UK and most of Europe, car A would not signal at all on a "straight-through" course), then all three cars can enter and proceed through the roundabout simultaneously. If they do not, then all 3 vehicles must stop to wait and see what the others are doing before they can proceed, resulting in significantly poorer (only ~33% as much) traffic flow (and basically removing the point of having the roundabout in the first place - may as well just be a simple crossroads).

Obviously, as the number of entries/exits, and cars, increases, indicating on approach becomes even more important to achieving good traffic flow.
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  #47  
Old 18.11.2008, 12:14
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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I find this rule very odd. Do we have any junctions like this in the UK? I can't think of ever seeing one. In Uk the red line would always have right of way because anyone coming in would be cutting accross your path. Anyone who wanted to come in would have to wait until the road was clear. There's a junction like this near the Kalkbrighte tram stop on Bardenerstrasse. I nearly had an accident there when a guy pulled out in front of me.

No, luckily there are no rules like this in the UK. I think this rules are outdated here in Switzerland. They may have worked years ago when there was less traffic. It also appears that people don`t understand the give way to the right rule anymore either. I pass the particular junction on this thread almost daily, being blue wanting to turn left and having to give way to both red and yellow to avoid a crash.
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  #48  
Old 18.11.2008, 12:18
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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I find this rule very odd. Do we have any junctions like this in the UK? I can't think of ever seeing one. In Uk the red line would always have right of way because anyone coming in would be cutting accross your path. Anyone who wanted to come in would have to wait until the road was clear. There's a junction like this near the Kalkbrighte tram stop on Bardenerstrasse. I nearly had an accident there when a guy pulled out in front of me.
Looks to be a standard T-junction. As far as I know, in the UK, as in Australia, in the absence of any signage, through traffic takes priority (this is so farmer Joe on his tractor has to wait for the line of 50 cars on the through road to go past, not vice-versa).


(New Zealand also has a crazy rule where traffic turning across through traffic has right-of-way. I can't remember their roundabout rules off the top of my head though.)
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  #49  
Old 18.11.2008, 12:26
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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The left (or right) indicator is to signal your overall intention to everyone else as you approach. Ie: to let them know whether or not you will be "crossing" their path and, therefore, whether or not they need to give way to you.
Ah but you forget, many a roundabouts have a large obstruction placed in the middle of them making it (many times) impossible to see directly across if someone is or isn't approaching the roundabout. Remember, when you are in the roundabout the approaching vehicles have to give way to you (left signal or no left signal). Using a right signal to show your intent on exiting the roundabout is a courtesy letting the next know it's safe to pull out into the roundabout.
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  #50  
Old 18.11.2008, 12:34
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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Ah but you forget, many a roundabouts have a large obstruction placed in the middle of them making it (many times) impossible to see directly across if someone is or isn't approaching the roundabout. Remember, when you are in the roundabout the approaching vehicles have to give way to you (left signal or no left signal). Using a right signal to show your intent on exiting the roundabout is a courtesy letting the next know it's safe to pull out into the roundabout.

This is true as Swiss roundabouts are small. But lets assume they will introduce bigger roundabouts like they exist in the UK (mind you, they may already exist here and I have not come across one yet), you will be able to see the cars much before they approach their exist. This means if you are approaching a roundabout, you will have to wait until the car is almost at the exist before knowing what it is going to do. If the car would indicate left, I would know that I had to wait.
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  #51  
Old 18.11.2008, 12:56
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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Ah but you forget, many a roundabouts have a large obstruction placed in the middle of them making it (many times) impossible to see directly across if someone is or isn't approaching the roundabout.
No, I don't. Being able to see where people are going applies equally well to two entrances next to each other, as it does to two across from each other.

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Remember, when you are in the roundabout the approaching vehicles have to give way to you (left signal or no left signal). Using a right signal to show your intent on exiting the roundabout is a courtesy letting the next know it's safe to pull out into the roundabout.
Again, this isn't about traffic already on the roundabout, it's about traffic approaching and entering the roundabout. With the system you are espousing, every car must stop at their entry to assess what every other card is doing before proceeding - thus treating the roundabout just like a regular crossroad and removing any point to having it in the first place (indeed, it's actually worse than a regular crossroad because people will indicate as they approach those).

With an indication on entry, multiple vehicles can simultaneously enter and proceed through the roundabout. Thus, the efficiency of the intersection (in terms of traffic flow) is improved.

(Roundabouts are also safer, because they significantly reduce the possibility of head-on and "hard" T-bone type collisions.)
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  #52  
Old 18.11.2008, 13:03
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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This is true as Swiss roundabouts are small. But lets assume they will introduce bigger roundabouts like they exist in the UK (mind you, they may already exist here and I have not come across one yet), you will be able to see the cars much before they approach their exist. This means if you are approaching a roundabout, you will have to wait until the car is almost at the exist before knowing what it is going to do. If the car would indicate left, I would know that I had to wait.
Large roundabouts - they have; in Spreitenbach (amongst others) - two new roundabouts, each with two lanes. Be very, very careful!
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  #53  
Old 18.11.2008, 14:30
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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  #54  
Old 18.11.2008, 15:09
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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Again, this isn't about traffic already on the roundabout, it's about traffic approaching and entering the roundabout. With the system you are espousing, every car must stop at their entry to assess what every other card is doing before proceeding - thus treating the roundabout just like a regular crossroad and removing any point to having it in the first place (indeed, it's actually worse than a regular crossroad because people will indicate as they approach those).
I completely agree and would like to add that there are huge roundabouts with 5, 6 or even more entry/exits with big flow of traffic, where trying to make that asessment for each and every other car would be virtually impossible.

The system is efficient and safe. Even the occassional "non-indicating" drivers only hinder the flow of the traffic and don't cause any harm to the rest of us who know the rules of the road.
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  #55  
Old 18.11.2008, 15:58
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

I have been told (although this may be a really old "urban legend") that the Priorité ŕ Droite/give way to the right thing dates back to the French Revolution, when the Sans-culottes started walking and driving their waggons on the right-hand side of the road to show that they were against the aristocracy, and insisted on their right of way. Up until then, all of Europe had driven on the left.
Nice idea anyway, let's blame the French!

The priority is theoretically only applicable at junctions of the same "value" by the way, I spent thousands of francs a few years ago taking the Border police to court over this, they'd shot out of a tiny dirt track onto a main road, knocked my son off his scooter, putting him in hospital with multiple injuries and then tried to blame him for not ceding the priority.
We did win, but only because the TCS got involved. The junction now has a very large Stop sign on it making the priority clear.
Anjela
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  #56  
Old 18.11.2008, 21:00
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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Large roundabouts - they have; in Spreitenbach (amongst others) - two new roundabouts, each with two lanes. Be very, very careful!
This is probably one of the most extreme roundabouts in England, Swindon's infamous 'Magic Roundabout'.

http://home.san.rr.com/roundabout/english.htm

You can travel clockwise round the outside, anti-clockwise round the inside, or cut right across it!
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  #57  
Old 21.12.2011, 17:32
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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If more than two cars arrive at an intersection with priority from the right at the same time, the law states that the drivers have to decide among them who goes first.
. This is correct answer.
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  #58  
Old 21.12.2011, 17:59
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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. This is correct answer.
Could you just review the other 28500 threads and let us know which is the correct answer for these too?

Thanks
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  #59  
Old 21.12.2011, 18:39
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

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Could you just review the other 28500 threads and let us know which is the correct answer for these too?

Thanks
Only those three years old and older, please.
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Old 08.10.2015, 15:40
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Re: Traffic question - priority of road

quiz: based on the responses to the OP, reconstruct the now expired image and post on here.
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