Combining Abo with normal tickets

Hsiang · #1 17.07.2009, 20:49

Hi all!

I have a question regarding traveling with SBB. is it possible to combine my Abo with a normal ticket? specifically...

I have an Abo for Baden (Zone 570) which allows me to travel up to Neuenhof. There are 2 options to travel from Baden to Zurich: a 15min ride with the IR or a 30min ride with the S-Bahn.

If i take the S-bahn which stops at every station including Neuenhof, I just need to buy a ticket from Neuenhof to Zurich. I tried the same for the IR, and received different responses from the conductors, some said it was OK, and others not.

I clarified my query at a SBB counter and was told that I could not combine my Abo in the same way as it was with the S-Bahn. The reason was that the IR does not stop at every station. Now, the ticket from Baden to Zurich is the same, regardless whichever train one takes. I was then advised that I could either save money and take the slow train, or pay the whole way and save time.

it seems to me that i'm being penalised for having an Abo. Am i missing something here? is there any means of appeal? I travel quite often to Zurich, and its getting quite pricey, but not quite pricey enough to fork out more cash for a Zurich/inclusive Abo.

any advice/info appreciated! Thanks!

gruss, hsiang

Mrs. Doolittle · #2 18.07.2009, 07:15

	Quote:	Hsiang
	Hi all! I have a question regarding traveling with SBB. is it possible to combine my Abo with a normal ticket? specifically... I have an Abo for Baden (Zone 570) which allows me to travel up to Neuenhof. There are 2 options to travel from Baden to Zurich: a 15min ride with the IR or a 30min ride with the S-Bahn. If i take the S-bahn which stops at every station including Neuenhof, I just need to buy a ticket from Neuenhof to Zurich. I tried the same for the IR, and received different responses from the conductors, some said it was OK, and others not. I clarified my query at a SBB counter and was told that I could not combine my Abo in the same way as it was with the S-Bahn. The reason was that the IR does not stop at every station. Now, the ticket from Baden to Zurich is the same, regardless whichever train one takes. I was then advised that I could either save money and take the slow train, or pay the whole way and save time. it seems to me that i'm being penalised for having an Abo. Am i missing something here? is there any means of appeal? I travel quite often to Zurich, and its getting quite pricey, but not quite pricey enough to fork out more cash for a Zurich/inclusive Abo. any advice/info appreciated! Thanks! gruss, hsiang

My understanding is that as soon as you travel outside the zone under which your ABO is covered, you must pay, but with the IR, there is no way to calculate the fare from Neuenhof to Zürich as you cannot buy that ticket from Neuenhof. Have you got a halb tax card? This might be worth it as you will save everytime you need to buy a ticket outside the zone of your ABO.

Otherwise I guess you just have to take the slower train (the S Bahn).

vicladyuk · #3 18.07.2009, 08:25

i though you also had to pay for the part of the journey only outside your zone but i nearly got fined 80chf for travelling as part of my journey fell outside my zone, despite the fact i had bought a ticket to cover this part of the journey too!!! i was told it was because it was a different line!!

Hsiang · #4 19.07.2009, 15:43

	Quote:	Mrs. Doolittle
	but with the IR, there is no way to calculate the fare from Neuenhof to Zürich as you cannot buy that ticket from Neuenhof.

hi! that's exactly the reason they gave me too. but it seems a little disingenuous to me: just because the train does not stop there, doesn't mean the fare cannot be calculated, it just means they do not calculate it. If the ticket on the IR and the S-bahn is the same between Baden and Zurich, i don't see why it cannot be calculated.

This restriction on combining the Abo and normal fare ticket on the IR seems like a grey area to me and the SBB would rather burden the traveller with either using the Abo and a longer ride, or not using the Abo and spending more.

Hsiang · #5 19.07.2009, 16:36

*exasperated* who is hsiang and why wont he leave us alone?!?!

sorry, just 1 last question, promise! Does anyone happen to know the email contact of the CEO Andreas Meyer? i have a personal message for him...

amogles · #6 21.07.2009, 13:01

In the Zürich zone system (and that in Aargau is modelled on this), the rule is that you can use your Abo to the last stop within the area in which it is valid, and you have to pay from that stop.

So if you are travelling by fast train this means the difference you pay is greater than by stopping train, as the last stop of the stopping train may be closer to the physical edge of the zone.

For example, coming from Basel to Zürich and owning a Zone 10 ticket for Zürich, you would pay a different fare for the non-stop train than for the IR that stops in Altstetten. The one that stops in Altstetten is marginally cheaper. In reality most people wouldn't bother as the difference is minimal and you'd probably value the flexibility of chosing your train over that price difference. Most SBB people wouldn't tell you about the difference unless you ask them specifically.

However, now Aargau also has a zone system so in this particular case the question of Baden to Zürich is moot, seeing you can travel all the way from Baden to Zürich on a zone ticket (with the appropriate zones of course).

If you do not have all the zones on your Abo, you can add these zones individually. However, the Aargau zonmes are, as far as I am aware, available in abo format only and single tickets are not calculated based on the zone structure. Therefore, you could combine two abos, say a yar abo for one zone with a month abo of the next zone and use the through train. However, when combining an abo with a single ticket that doesn't work, and the SBB price calculation would take precedence over the Verkehrsverbund one.

I hope I haven't confused you.

Hsiang · #7 21.07.2009, 21:48

	Quote:	amogles
	In the Zürich zone system (and that in Aargau is modelled on this), the rule is that you can use your Abo to the last stop within the area in which it is valid, and you have to pay from that stop. So if you are travelling by fast train this means the difference you pay is greater than by stopping train, as the last stop of the stopping train may be closer to the physical edge of the zone. For example, coming from Basel to Zürich and owning a Zone 10 ticket for Zürich, you would pay a different fare for the non-stop train than for the IR that stops in Altstetten. The one that stops in Altstetten is marginally cheaper. In reality most people wouldn't bother as the difference is minimal and you'd probably value the flexibility of chosing your train over that price difference. Most SBB people wouldn't tell you about the difference unless you ask them specifically. However, now Aargau also has a zone system so in this particular case the question of Baden to Zürich is moot, seeing you can travel all the way from Baden to Zürich on a zone ticket (with the appropriate zones of course). If you do not have all the zones on your Abo, you can add these zones individually. However, the Aargau zonmes are, as far as I am aware, available in abo format only and single tickets are not calculated based on the zone structure. Therefore, you could combine two abos, say a yar abo for one zone with a month abo of the next zone and use the through train. However, when combining an abo with a single ticket that doesn't work, and the SBB price calculation would take precedence over the Verkehrsverbund one. I hope I haven't confused you.

maaan, i took forever to figure out what you were talking about, but i think i get it now. its like saying that the IR that leaves baden is operating in another zone completely.

Hsiang · #8 22.07.2009, 19:24

in case anyone was interested to know, here's the delightfully worded response from SBB to my query.

	Quote:
	Dear Mr. Kowalski Many thanks for your visit at the SBB counter in Baden and your e-mail of Sunday, 19th July. We are both happy and grateful to count you as one of our good customers, owning a half fare card and an abonnement A-Welle. You are asking us, why there exist different prices for the InterRegio trains and the S-Bahn between Baden - Neuenhof - Zürich. I hope, I can explain it to you, and my explanation in bad English is sufficient enough. The main reason for this separate prices and tickets to buy is that the slow trains (S-Bahnen, Regios) are almost totally financed by the cantons (here in this case Kanton Aargau and Kanton Zürich). The fast trains (InterRegios, InterCity) however are financed by the SBB itself. There is also the Tarifverbund A-Welle, a network (or interconnection, bond, cooperation; I don't know the correct word) of all public transport companies in the canton Aargau. When you possess a A-Welle-abonnement for the zone Nr 70, and you wish to travel from inside this network to outside, for example to Zürich, you have to buy or pay a complementary ticket. This ticket must be from the last stop inside the network to your destination outside. The fast train stops in Baden and not in Neuenhof, so you pay a ticket from Baden. This rules are used by all other networks in Switzerland, for example also by the Zürcher Verkehrsverbund ZVV. For all this reasons there must be a difference of calculation for tickets. We count on your understanding and thank you for being a faithful customer. Finally, we would like to wish you many more pleasant journeys by train, bus and ship and we remain at your service. Yours sincerely, H* G* Customer Relations Region Solothurn-Aargau

NotAllThere · #9 22.07.2009, 22:46

Makes sense to me. I've a TNW abo. If I go to Bern on a train that goes Basel, Liestal, Olten, Bern, I can buy a ticket from Liestal to Bern for that segment. If it doesn't stop at Liestal, I have to buy the ticket from Basel. The trains that don't stop at Liestal cost more from Basel than those that do. The price for using a faster train.

So I don't see what the issue is. Did I miss something?

btw - typical Swiss. "Bad English" indeed. I wish my German was as "bad".

Hsiang · #10 25.07.2009, 22:17

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	The price for using a faster train.

is equal to the price for using a slower train. my question was, why Abo(point A to B) + normal ticket (point B to C) is not equal to normal ticket (point A to C).

amogles · #11 26.07.2009, 15:35

	Quote:	Hsiang
	is equal to the price for using a slower train. my question was, why Abo(point A to B) + normal ticket (point B to C) is not equal to normal ticket (point A to C).

Because SBB fares are calculated from station to station whereas "Verkehrsverbund" or "Tarifverbund" fares are calculated on the basis of zones.

Those are two fundamentally different ways of calculating prices.

So, to re-use NotAllThere's example.

The SBB fare from Basel to Bern is the price from Basel SBB station to Bern station. That ticket is valid on any reasonable service by any reasonable route between those two stations.

Equally, the SBB ticket from Liestal to Bern is valid on any reasonable service by any reasonable route between those two stations.

Now if you have an Abo that covers the zones of Basel SBB, Liestal and whatever there is in between, you can travel from any place in those zones to any other place in those zones. You can, for example, travel from Basel SBB to Liestal. Then in Liestal you can catch a train to Bern. If the train you used to come to Liestal continues to Bern you can even hop straight back onto that same train and into the same seat you were in before. Only you have ended one trip and begun the next by putting one foot outside the train. Now, rather then be pedantic and demand you put one foor outside the train, SBB says it is sufficient that the train has stopped and that you could have put one foot outside the train.