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  #21  
Old 11.08.2009, 18:45
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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you do realise your car is completely illegal, and if you crash, or even get stopped by the boys in blue and they check your in deep deep shit?

Your not insured, to be insured in the uk you need valid tax and mot as well as not lying to the insurance company!!

I'll just say it again, if you have a crash YOU ARE NOT INSURED! god help other road users with you around!!!
Insurance broker said I would be OK, so will just have to hope that you are wrong. I should be taking the car back in October when I can then get it MOT and taxed.
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  #22  
Old 11.08.2009, 18:49
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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Insurance broker said I would be OK, so will just have to hope that you are wrong. I should be taking the car back in October when I can then get it MOT and taxed.

your insurance broker is an idiot or liar! to be legal here you HAVE to be legal in the uk, as the car is sorn, not registered in your name, has no tax or mot its most definatly not legal! whoever your insurance company is (not the broker) would just laugh at you if you tried to make a claim.

And again, your a braver man then me driving a car through a port and on uk roads passed all those anpr cameras in a car thats been sorn for a couple of years and has no tax etc, I'd avoid the channel tunnel if I where you lol
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  #23  
Old 11.08.2009, 18:56
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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Insurance broker said I would be OK, so will just have to hope that you are wrong. I should be taking the car back in October when I can then get it MOT and taxed.

Cashboy, I spend my time between UK & CH and use UK registered cars.

The cars are registered, MOT'd, Taxed & insured( all Europe cover) in the UK. We have looked into this in great detail. To use your car legally abroad it MUST comply with all the rules of the Country it is registered in. If you live solely in Switzerland then there is a time limit. I have been stopped and placed under great scrutiny by Swiss customs but all was fine. Heaven help you if you are stopped or have an accident.
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  #24  
Old 11.08.2009, 19:00
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

By the way, is your car a Reliant Robin........

Cashboy? ....Delboy
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  #25  
Old 11.08.2009, 19:01
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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your insurance broker is an idiot or liar! to be legal here you HAVE to be legal in the uk, as the car is sorn, not registered in your name, has no tax or mot its most definatly not legal! whoever your insurance company is (not the broker) would just laugh at you if you tried to make a claim.

And again, your a braver man then me driving a car through a port and on uk roads passed all those anpr cameras in a car thats been sorn for a couple of years and has no tax etc, I'd avoid the channel tunnel if I where you lol
I have always used the ferry. I am not worried about the "anpr" because as I said I would have the paperwork for an appointment at an MOT station and would have the ferry ticket as proof of arrival of vehicle into the UK.
Think about it; if you drove your car out of the UK for four months and Road Tax and MOT ran out while away, you would have exactly the same predicament.
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  #26  
Old 11.08.2009, 19:03
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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you do realise your car is completely illegal, and if you crash, or even get stopped by the boys in blue and they check your in deep deep shit?

Your not insured, to be insured in the uk you need valid tax and mot as well as not lying to the insurance company!!

I'll just say it again, if you have a crash YOU ARE NOT INSURED! god help other road users with you around!!!
Not sure where you got your information from, however it is incorrect. Having no RFL (car tax) does not invalidate your insurance. You can in fact drive to a pre-booked appointment for an MOT, therefore again it does not invalidate your insurance. The vehicle does need to be roadworthy as your insurance will check if involved in an accident. Even if the vehicle was found to be in an unroadworthy condition, the insurers would still legally have to pay out to any 3rd parties involved, but would more than likely not cover your vehicle damage or they could pay a reduced amount.
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  #27  
Old 11.08.2009, 19:09
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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Cashboy, I spend my time between UK & CH and use UK registered cars.

The cars are registered, MOT'd, Taxed & insured( all Europe cover) in the UK. We have looked into this in great detail. To use your car legally abroad it MUST comply with all the rules of the Country it is registered in. If you live solely in Switzerland then there is a time limit. I have been stopped and placed under great scrutiny by Swiss customs but all was fine. Heaven help you if you are stopped or have an accident.
Hopefully, I am OK, I am registered as resident in the UK as well as Switzerland.

Problem arises if you are driving with Swiss Licence, Swiss Passport showing residency in Switzerland and UK car.

When I came through the customs in Basle, I used my English Passport and then they wanted to check Insurance and Driving Licence. I only had my Swiss driving licence in one name which was a different name on the insuarnce policy and my UK passport.
Customs guy said Double Identity, No Problem, OK, Bye Bye when I was expecting aggrevation.

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  #28  
Old 11.08.2009, 19:34
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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Not sure where you got your information from, however it is incorrect. Having no RFL (car tax) does not invalidate your insurance. You can in fact drive to a pre-booked appointment for an MOT, therefore again it does not invalidate your insurance. The vehicle does need to be roadworthy as your insurance will check if involved in an accident. Even if the vehicle was found to be in an unroadworthy condition, the insurers would still legally have to pay out to any 3rd parties involved, but would more than likely not cover your vehicle damage or they could pay a reduced amount.

rfl is the least of his problems! no mot, car is sorn, and not registered in his name will invalidate your insurance, read your policy!

If you cannot legally drive your car in its home country, then you cannot drive it here! as the car is sorn, no mot, no tax not registered to him, then you cannot drive it in the uk, so you cannot drive it here, simple.

would the insurance co have to pay out to 3rd parties? well in the uk 3rd parties would be covered under the Motor Insurers' Bureau how that works for someone hit by an uninsured uk driver driving abroad is anyones guess, I'd rather not find out.
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  #29  
Old 11.08.2009, 20:13
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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rfl is the least of his problems! no mot, car is sorn, and not registered in his name will invalidate your insurance, read your policy!

If you cannot legally drive your car in its home country, then you cannot drive it here! as the car is sorn, no mot, no tax not registered to him, then you cannot drive it in the uk, so you cannot drive it here, simple.

would the insurance co have to pay out to 3rd parties? well in the uk 3rd parties would be covered under the Motor Insurers' Bureau how that works for someone hit by an uninsured uk driver driving abroad is anyones guess, I'd rather not find out.
When I filled in the policy, I stated that I was not the name on the V55.
It is preferable to have the V55 name as the policy insured name but not necessary by law or the insurance policy if it is aware.
Think about leased cars where the leasing company is the owner on the V55 often. Often company cars are provided by companies but insured by individuals.
Read the DVLA, it states on the UK roads. It does not need Road Tax if it is not driven on the UK roads. Road Tax was supposedly a charge for maintaining the UK roads. It does not need an MOT; again you need an MOT for the UK roads.
It may not be the ideal way, but it is legal.

The car is road worthy, checked by Swiss garage recently.
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  #30  
Old 11.08.2009, 20:35
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

for the last time, the law is simple, can you legally drive the car in the uk, no, then its not legal here.

trying to justify it to yourself with lease cars etc does not change the fact your driving an illegal car.

if your in any doubt just pop along to your local police station and ask.
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  #31  
Old 11.08.2009, 21:53
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

You may be a named driver on the policy but, you are not the policy holder and could not, therefore, initiate a claim. This would have to be done by the policyholder as, technically, you have no insurable interest in the vehicle.

You state, ‘when I filled in the policy’ I presume you mean the insurance proposal form and I also presume it was done with your ex-girlfriends knowledge and signed by her. Did you read the declaration, usually on the bottom of the form, which says something like:-

I have not with withheld any material information that may influence the acceptance of this risk. (If you you are not sure weather certain information would influence the acceptance you should disclose it in any case).
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  #32  
Old 12.08.2009, 09:59
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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As far as I can read in the thread, the car is already in the UK. To scrap it, you still need valid DVLA paperwork, which the OP doesn't have.

Surely someone from the DVLA should give him sound advice!

Just to fill in some blanks.

I have (had) a UK registered car which I bought new in 1994 from a UK dealer in the UK.
I brought the car over here, firstly insured by my UK insurance (first 3 months) then got the strange year leeway.
Although I did not fill any paperwork, the DVLA told me via email that my car was listed on their system as exported.

So, it's originally a 'UK' car that has now spent nearly two years in Switzerland. It's sitting on private land (with plates on admittedly but it is private land).

The DVLA said I would need the following:

A fully filled-in application form V55/5;
Appropriate Identity Documentation confirming your name and address;
Either the V561 (UK Certificate of Export), the V5C Registration Certificate, the VX302 (UK Pink Registration Document), V308 (UK Blue Registration Document), evidence/details of previous UK registration if known (the Local Office may re-register the vehicle under the original mark) or any documentation you may have relating to the vehicle e.g. foreign log book;
The required fee for the tax disc(rates of tax disc fees available on our website);
A current certificate of insurance issued by a member of the UK Motor Insurance Bureau;
A current British MOT test certificate for:
cars, motorcycles, motor caravans and Light Good Vehicles if more than 3 years old;
passenger carrying vehicles with more than 8 seats and taxis (excluding private hire cars) if more than 1 year old.
A vehicle may be driven unlicensed on a public road if it is going to or coming from a pre-arranged MOT test and the driver is insured for the journey.
On receipt of a completed application, the Local Office will issue a tax disc and forward the papers to DVLA. You will receive a Registration Document for the vehicle within about 30 working days.
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  #33  
Old 12.08.2009, 11:01
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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You may be a named driver on the policy but, you are not the policy holder and could not, therefore, initiate a claim. This would have to be done by the policyholder as, technically, you have no insurable interest in the vehicle.

You state, ‘when I filled in the policy’ I presume you mean the insurance proposal form and I also presume it was done with your ex-girlfriends knowledge and signed by her. Did you read the declaration, usually on the bottom of the form, which says something like:-

I have not with withheld any material information that may influence the acceptance of this risk. (If you you are not sure weather certain information would influence the acceptance you should disclose it in any case).
I am the policy holder; ex-girlfriend is a named driver (always cheaper to have a female on the policy even if they never drive the car).
V55 in her name basically because I originally bought the vehicle for her to use and didn't want to change the number of keepers on the V55.
No lies are told on the policy.
The car has only been doing 3,500 miles per annum which to be honest is the equivalent of two journies to Switzerland and back (I live in Ticino near Italian border).
To me the only thing to worry about is lack of Road Tax and MOT which I can do nothing about; though not breaking the law as vehicle is in Switzerland.
I have made sure the vehicle is totally road worthy.
Idealy, I would get a car in Switzerland but at the moment do not want to plough any more money into another depreciating asset, especially when I am not sure what I am doing with my life with regard to living/working/business especially in this economic climate.
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  #34  
Old 12.08.2009, 11:12
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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To me the only thing to worry about is lack of Road Tax and MOT which I can do nothing about
You will also need to contact HM Revenue & Customs before re-importing it.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/c...vehicles.htm#3
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  #35  
Old 12.08.2009, 11:33
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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To me the only thing to worry about is lack of Road Tax and MOT which I can do nothing about; though not breaking the law as vehicle is in Switzerland.
I have made sure the vehicle is totally road worthy.
You keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true!

Your not breaking any UK laws, true enough, but you ARE breaking swiss laws. Your car is not UK legal, therefore ITS NOT swiss legal.

If you cannot legally drive your car in its registered country (England) THEN YOU CANNOT LEGALLY DRIVE IT HERE.

It may well be the best maintained car on the road, that doesn't make it legal, I am 99.999% sure your insurance in invalid (having worked in insurance for many years) If you have any sort of accident you will be in the ****.

You say you can do nothing about lack of mot and tax, BS!! you can do what all the other brits do, take your car back to the uk once a year and get the mot and tax.

So in summary

YOUR CAR IS NOT LEGAL IN ENGLAND OR SWITZERLAND, YOUR INSURANCE IS NOT VALID, YOU SHOULD NOT BE DRIVING IT!!
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  #36  
Old 15.08.2009, 17:11
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

I (or more exactly my EU-citizen daughter) brought a petition on this issue to the European Parliament. It was, after more than a year, rejected so I know the law. I was in constant touch with the DVLA.

My daughter drove her 20-y.o. car to France and Italy on business and left it in our private garage space where it stayed for 1-1/2 years. It was and is on my UK insurance policy (actually it's a US policy but issued in the name of their UK subsidiary so the terms of the policy are more US than UK). Suffice to say, it is (expensively) insured. The value of the car is probably less than the monthly premium.

The tax disc and MOT are expired. It is (according to the DVLA) illegal to drive it now anywhere in the EU. It is not illegal per se to drive it in Switzerland; it may be illegal to keep it there more than 12 months but nobody seems to care and my place is down the road from the customs office. Recently when I drove it from a supermarket back home (I drove it every few months just to keep it in order) the clutch failed. Fortunately I got it into 4th gear and Customs didn't stop me, and neither did 2 traffic lights, and I got it to a dealer, where it still is.

I understand that the dealer can legally scrap it (he told me that). I don't think that is legally possible in France since it was never taxed there, but I haven't checked recently.

If I want to bring it to the UK and give it as a gift to my London mechanic (who is an MOT test station) this is how I have to do it legally:

1. Either get French transporter (dealer, garage) plates and drive it to Calais or
2. Put it on a flatbed and bring it to Calais.

Once there, put it on the ferry without any plates at all. Once in Dover, park it and buy "Q" plates from the AA. Show my insurance document. Ring my MOT friend and make an appointment.

Alternatively DVLA said that they didn't mind if I drive it with void plates to London so long as I have that appointment, and insurance. But I haven't seen that in writing. I can say that years ago I had my driver take a car I wanted to sell in North Africa; and he took the diplomatic plates off while on the ferry and bought Q plates, and I got a registration document (rarely needed outside of Brunei and such places the AA told me when they sold it to me).

But with an MOT appointment you can drive the car from Land's End to John o'Groats, said the DVLA.

I am aware that the French are unlikely to know what I now know about the legality of driving a GB untaxed car through France to Calais. I also know that putting the car on a flatbed and sending it as freight would cost more than the car is worth. Hey, even the toll and petrol would.

I haven't decided what to do, and in the meantime I pay the insurance. Next week I will go see the dealer; they promised to email me whether they thought a clutch repair was worth doing (i.e., well under CHF 1,000) or not.

For the rest: the first year the car was parked in Switzerland I filed a SORN. The DVLA later told me that was illegal (car would have to be physically in the UK, and then the SORN must be filed within 30 days of the expiration of the tax disc). Instead they were happy to take my email notice that the car is abroad. I believe, but do not know, that when and if I re-import the car and re-register it they will assign a new registration (plate) number with the same year letter (J) as the old.

I know that the UK is a favourite place for stolen vehicles as the logbook system is full of loopholes and weaknesses, and duplicate documents (V5) are easy to get. Once the thief has such a document the car can then be registered elsewhere. With my ex-diplomatic car the procedure was even easier: Q plates are self-declared and the registration document is a UN treaty paper with about as much security as an IDP (international driving licence), which is to say none at all.
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  #37  
Old 16.08.2009, 01:01
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

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I (or more exactly my EU-citizen daughter) brought a petition on this issue to the European Parliament. It was, after more than a year, rejected so I know the law. I was in constant touch with the DVLA.
Was that before the BIVA regulations were introduced in April 2009?

The process of getting a UK vehicle registration (and keeping one) are much harder now that the Basic Individual Vehicle Assessment test is in place. Any vehicle re-imported that does not have a European Certificate of Conformity or proof of prior British registration will have to go through one.

As far as I know, non-Diplomats cannot just buy Q plate numbers. They can only be assigned by DVLA. They cannot be bought from the AA and you will need one of the above documents to get one. A Q plate is the mark of 'Questionable History' and once a vehicle has one it stays with the vehicle permanently until the vehicle is either destroyed or exported.
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  #38  
Old 17.08.2009, 11:57
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

I took back my 10 yr old UK reg car to the UK having booked the MOT etc. It failed the MOT, needing about £1k to get it through.

As the 2nd hand market in the Uk has collapsed, I estimated to sell it quickly (ebay) I would only get about £1k for it. So the car was scrapped.

Before you go through all the hassle, consider how much you would be prepared to pay for the car to pass an MOT, what you realisitically expect that you can get for the car once all the paperwork is sorted, and how long it might take to sell the car. If you still feel positive about the outcome, then go for it. If not, end its days here and save yourself a lot of trouble.
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  #39  
Old 17.08.2009, 18:26
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

I think you need the MOT done anyway, IMHO there's no way to escape from doing it if you want to sell the car legally. And, think too about the chances that the car needs MORE work than it's worth (as in the previous poster's comment).

Last edited by adr1ana; 17.08.2009 at 18:26. Reason: changed less for MORE
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  #40  
Old 19.08.2009, 09:49
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Re: Re-import UK car back to UK

I can also confirm that if you have booked an MOT then you are able to drive a car to that MOT garage as long as it is the nearest to you (ie to your entry point in the UK). Again if you then go to the nearest post office to buy car tax (have a print out in car suggesting you know where it is) then this element should be fine also. I didn't SORN my car so don't know what effect that has on the equation.

I currently have my 12 year old UK car in Basel and going through the process of getting Swiss number plates. Gargare told me it would cost CHF220 to present it but now tell me that was just the 'official presentation fee' and not their labour and they have done at least another CHF700 work on it. I have a difficult meeting with them this am at ten

Can anyone confirm the official presentation fee arguement?
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