Hi,

I'm new in CheeseLand. I'm trying to buy a PC, after search around, all PCs in shops are based on WindowsVista (German version) and German layout keyboard. Does anybody know where I can buy the PC with English XP or w/ OS, of course English layout keyboard. I tried to search the web, most are in German, which I cannot understand. I'm live in Aargau Kanton. Thanks

I think at Dell.ch your can built your to your requirements or just email your friendly PCDesigns.

One place where you can specify the OS and language is Steg ( http://www.stegcomputer.ch ) otherwise if you buy a HP you generally get multi language OS'es. You probably won't be able to get away from Vista though if you do that.

There is also a guy who owns a computer shop with the forum tag PCDesigns, maybe you can send him an IM and he can help you.

Rob

Dell will definitely help, but you'll have to actually call them up to arrange the UK keyboard layout and their website doesnt make it easy to avoid Vista either. You can even get Ubuntu installed if you're prepared to pay for it, amazingly.

Regarding the keyboard, I quickly found that having a swiss german keyboard was very useful for the extra keys and I reckon it's not such a bad thing to move away from a UK setup if you're over here. Just be warned that if you're a software developer you'll tie your fingers in knots writing html tags and curly brackets...

This is exactly why I maintain my US keyboard at home.

You can get a notebook from Dell with a US or UK layout. You can also buy a keyboard from Logitech with US and UK layouts.

All the laptops and PCs that come with German Vista can be configured to be in English when you start them up the first time (at least with the last 3 PCs I used). It prompts you for german, french, italian, or english if memory serves.

As far as the keyboard, the only US keyboards I've seen have been those fancy gamer keyboards from Razer for example.
Another option is buy a keyboard with swappable keys and flip the Y/Z. If you are a touch typer you won't even notice you have a Swahili keyboard.

Thanks for your all replies. Actually, I definitely need the US keyboard since I used to be with for many years. For the German keyboard, not only so ignoring to swap between Z/Y, but also the layout of symbols.

I am new here, so my perspective comes from shopping in Canada, but over there as well it is almost impossible to buy a computer without Vista. The Canadian Dell website only sells a very limited number of choices for PCs with XP in their business section. It is much easier to get one with Linux.

I found that to get the best price you usually have to buy a package of some sort from a larger store, maybe on sale, and then you are stuck with Vista. I was looking for a laptop, and all of the cheaper ones in the bigger stores came with Vista preinstalled, no options for XP.

A little searching on the net and I read that if the PC comes with Vista business or higher (like ultimate) then it actually has "downgrade rights" to XP (can anyone verify this?) So I bought my laptop with Vista and downgraded it. It was a bit difficult to find all of the hardware drivers, but I eventually did it. Not for the faint of heart. Plus you need a valid non-OEM copy of XP to start the process (which I have). This is also possible for people who buy a desktop with OEM Vista and want to downgrade it to XP. "Regular" XP (not OEM) costs a lot more, and it is becoming hard (in Canada) to find a PC store, even one that builds custom PCs to get OEM XP. Anyone care to comment on what the situation is like here for getting OEM XP?

In the end, my copy of XP activated just fine on my laptop, so I never did call Microsoft to get my downgrade key, so I can't say for sure if this whole process works as claimed on the internet. But this might be an option for further investigation to obtain a Vista-free PC for minimal CHFs.

As far as the keyboard goes, someone from France told me that there exists US "international" keyboard that is just like a normal US keyboard, but has extra shift-like keys to produce accents and umlauts. Has anyone ever seen, heard of, or tried one of these? If they are as claimed I would love to have one.

Just be glad they don't use French keyboards here. AZERTY keyboards ftl.

As far as Vista downgrading to XP, this is probably risky. The reason is the activation keys for windows XP are running out and Microsoft is actually making a new XP service pack just to deal with this problem by greatly expanding the number of activation keys (basic reason is vista sucks and microsoft thought nobody would buy XP anymore). It would be interesting if Vista keys actually do work for XP.

My Vista key did not work for XP, and the process is not really downgrading, you simply install XP from scratch and wipe out Vista. As I read in many sources on the internet, you then call Microsoft, tell them what you are doing, and they supposedly give you a new XP key.

This does require that you currently own a full copy of XP (which I do) and the beauty of it is that you can always go back to Vista later when they fix all the problems. This is what I am going to do if I don't jump ship and move to Linux.

Anyway, I am happily typing this post from my 17" HP Pavilion laptop, with XP-Pro installed and all of the hardware, from the built in Web cam to the card reader is working fine. I even managed to get the card reader to read my 8GB SDHC card from my Canon TX1 (requires a fix to XP). I am happy, but your mileage may vary. As I said before, not for the faint of heart, however a convenient option in my case.

I have not heard about XP keys running out before.

If you go to Stegcomputer.ch/shop.asp you can order a computer with Windows XP and an American layout keyboard. The whole lot will not cost you more than SFr. 700 for something worth having...

You can also get aftermarket US format keyboards from Cherry from places like Steg and ARP Datacon (www.arp.ch)

Welcome to cheez and chocolate land,
as mentioned, I can help you find what you are searching for within Switzerland.
We have contacts directly with suppliers for XP home or pro, Vista, all in English and whatever style keyboard you need.
PM me for more.

Careful with this idea, only some of the new systems come with this multi language install, AND normally you have no recovery system cds when you buy them.

Untrue,
you can only downgrade within the Vista software. Ultimate to Home basic for example, but why would you pay for Ultimate to use Home?
OEM XP is still available to us system builders and we can still sell it too.

I hope I don't regret asking this but why would you want XP if you can get Vista ? Also I find the keyboard issue interesting. I use a swiss german keyboard at work all the time and I have been doing so since I arrive here many years ago. As I touch type using 2 different keyboards at home and work would be a nightmare. I assume you use a english layout at work ?

I think from next Feb all new machines will come with Vista and so the question will become more academic.

Good luck with finding what you want.

Martin

compatibility issues are still high with older equipment and to-date, software runs better on XP.
This is almost the case now, they are trying to force the market to buy Vista.

There are actually many good reasons for this not least of which many applications simply do not work with Vista and that Vista is rather buggy - I had so many "blue" screens due apparently to driver issues for apparently vista compatible devices. It is also VERY graphics oriented and not IMVHO structured for the professional user. To the last point I must say that I have only seen the home premium edition and it might well be that other versions are better in this respect.
I know you can use Vista in XP compatible mode but hey why bother when you can use a non compatible mode real version of XP....

Really?

Check out:

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...rencesheet.pdf

There has been a lot of confusion on this issue, and I personally have not called Microsoft on this, but I did downgrade. It would be interesting to hear from someone that has:

a) Called Microsoft and successfully exercised their downgrade rights

or

b) Called Microsoft and been refused.

Perhaps I am beating a dead horse here but for those people who are buying a new machine and currently own a valid copy of XP-Pro, and might want to upgrade to Vista (Business or Ultimate) in the future, purchasing Vista and downgrading is a valid option.

Am I missing something here?

I was actually referring to the available choices during install time. Xp is not one of them, going beyond the normal users abilities and on-hand applications, there are many choices. Who wants to call Microsoft for help today? Personally, I refrain.