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  #21  
Old 13.12.2011, 14:45
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

hehehe I'm not a fan of s club 7 btw! one of them came from the area I was staying in and her dad was in the local rag moaning about how she was totally screwed over by simon fuller.
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  #22  
Old 14.12.2011, 16:00
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

just a thought.. why did the swiss police raid and confiscate servers that from a site that provided torrent links a few years ago... cant remember the site name though
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  #23  
Old 14.12.2011, 16:53
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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why did the swiss police raid and confiscate servers that from a site that provided torrent links a few years ago... cant remember the site name though
Which raid? When? Where? Site? Or at the very minimum, a link to the story online? Hard to comment without knowing..
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  #24  
Old 14.12.2011, 16:54
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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just a thought.. why did the swiss police raid and confiscate servers that from a site that provided torrent links a few years ago... cant remember the site name though
because you touch yourself....

No seriously, what vwild1 said...
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  #25  
Old 14.12.2011, 21:11
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

Some artists don't mind and even encourage it on the basis that more people will hear their music and go to their concerts.

I spoke with a grammy award winning artist a couple of years ago who said basically 'thank God for the internet'. He was selling less CDs but getting bigger and bigger crowds in places he'd never even been before on the basis of illegal downloads and videos people had put of him on youtube.
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  #26  
Old 15.12.2011, 07:59
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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just a thought.. why did the swiss police raid and confiscate servers that from a site that provided torrent links a few years ago... cant remember the site name though
Never heard of any raid.

But even if it did happen:

1. "a few years ago", downloads might not have been legal yet
2. There's a difference between downloading and linking to pirated material.

Peter
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  #27  
Old 15.12.2011, 08:11
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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I spoke with a grammy award winning artist a couple of years ago who said basically 'thank God for the internet'.
You must have been talking to Kid Rock.





From Rolling Stone:

Kid Rock Lashes Out Against iTunes, Endorses Illegal Downloading
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  #28  
Old 15.12.2011, 09:04
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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just a thought.. why did the swiss police raid and confiscate servers that from a site that provided torrent links a few years ago... cant remember the site name though
Because only downloading for private use is legal. The official argument is that a consumer cannot possibly expected to know if a source is legal or not... ("How could I know that piratebay.org is full of PIRATED copies???")

Running servers with torrent links is not the same as a personal download.
a) it is not downloading, but distributing stolen stuff
b) it is usually not exactly private but for profit
These sites are usually full of advertisement and said piratebay.org is a business that made millions on ad revenues through offering stolen content. Some of which they have to pay back now as even the very open Swedish society draws the line there. I find it wrong that in many countries school kids are bullied into paying huge fines, but that does not mean that you have to tolerate people making profits on stolen copyrighted material.
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  #29  
Old 15.12.2011, 09:19
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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Works from 2002 to date.
Any original works of authorship from 2002 to the present are automatically copyright protected from the moment of their creation. You may still register a copyright in order to establish the date of copyright protection and provide better protection against copyright infringement, but it's not necessary to register a copyright in order for a work to be protected.


SOURCE
Here is where the difficult part is because the majority of creations are not original as they have used a certain amount from others hence the requirement for proving originality usually does not pass. This is probably why many don't apply for copyright as they will not pass the test.

If this is the case then they can hardly blame the consumers for wanting it for free when the artists copied parts of it in the first place
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  #30  
Old 15.12.2011, 09:50
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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I read that the Swiss government has declared "downloading for personal use" legal. See for example
http://www.webpronews.com/swiss-gove...-legal-2011-12

Is this a hoax? How could it be true? At best, the government could issue a statement to the effect that no-one will be prosecuted in Switzerland for the crime of illegally downloading copyrighted material for personal use.
Why "at best".. Who do you think makes the laws of switzerland?

Crime is not a static absolute, what is criminal at one point in time and place, might not be a crime at another point.
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  #31  
Old 15.12.2011, 10:03
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

If only I could figure out how to download without uploading.
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  #32  
Old 15.12.2011, 11:26
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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Because only downloading for private use is legal. The official argument is that a consumer cannot possibly expected to know if a source is legal or not... ("How could I know that piratebay.org is full of PIRATED copies???")

Running servers with torrent links is not the same as a personal download.
a) it is not downloading, but distributing stolen stuff
b) it is usually not exactly private but for profit
These sites are usually full of advertisement and said piratebay.org is a business that made millions on ad revenues through offering stolen content. Some of which they have to pay back now as even the very open Swedish society draws the line there. I find it wrong that in many countries school kids are bullied into paying huge fines, but that does not mean that you have to tolerate people making profits on stolen copyrighted material.

torrent servers dont hold any "stolen" material, just torrent hash links.

i think it was suprnova or something like that which was raided but of course cant be sure, i did have a quick look for the story but cant see it, i do remember seeing it on the news though.
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  #33  
Old 15.12.2011, 11:45
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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torrent servers dont hold any "stolen" material, just torrent hash links.
I know. So? You are making money from enabling people to download pirated stuff. Without a tracker do users not find the existing torrents, so you are responsible that they have access to the material.

As I posted is the reason the Swiss courts have ruled to make private downloads legal the argument that you cannot expect every teenager to know if the song he is downloading is copyright protected or not.

From any business can and do Swiss courts expect that they spend the effort to find out if the stuff they are linking to is legal.

I think it is really common sense: Schoolkid downloading some mp3s does not get punished. People trying to make money from pirated material do get punished although probably very lightly compared to other forms of theft.
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  #34  
Old 15.12.2011, 12:15
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

It is legal for EVERYONE to download, not just school kids, and has to do with fair-use.

However, up-loading is illegal for everyone, not just those trying to make money.

Tom
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  #35  
Old 15.12.2011, 12:22
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

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It is legal for EVERYONE to download, not just school kids, and has to do with fair-use.

However, up-loading is illegal for everyone, not just those trying to make money.

Tom
Sorry, but not entirely correct. It is legal to download for PRIVATE use only. So if you are say a hobby DJ, get paid for playing the music to a public crowd would the same download pretty quickly become illegal.

Technically is pretty much everyone using torrents uploading as well. You can switch it off, but then some torrents won't work. I have not heard of a case in Switzerland where a private person was punished for this upload.
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  #36  
Old 04.01.2012, 23:04
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

To clarify the spirit of the Swiss law:
Downloading is tolerated because you actually don't know what your are downloading until it is completed (strange but actual rationale)
But copyright infringements are punishable, so you are not allowed to upload, and also in theory to keep the file that you have downloaded once you see it is subject to copyright.
But practically nobody has ever been sued for using peer-to-peer.
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  #37  
Old 07.01.2012, 17:24
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

DW interview (in English) with the president of Pirate Party Switzerland on this subject: http://mediacenter.dw-world.de/engli...ht_to_download
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  #38  
Old 07.01.2012, 18:28
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

Peer to peer sharing shouldn't be called pirating. Pirating properly is essentially a counterfeiting operation, and should be avoided - unless you get a kick out of supporting people who trade in human misery.

One of my friends downloads the latest movies for his son. The victim is his son who misses the experience of seeing films in the cinema.

There is also a victim if a film is downloaded that would have otherwise been bought. Then the people who invested in making the film don't get their cut, and those who rely on residuals don't get theirs. It's all very well pointing out that really rich people don't need your 15CHF (or whatever percentage they'd get out of it), but it's not just rich people who rely on residuals for income.

If you download a film, watch it, like it and buy it, then that's not a problem, in my view. What annoys me is well-payed people who download rather than shell out 15CHF, and then kid themselves that somehow they're striking a blow at big corp. They're not. They're merely tight-fisted hypocrites.
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  #39  
Old 07.01.2012, 20:32
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

To clarify even more:

Downloading movies and music is legal. Uploading is not.

Downloading or uploading software is both illegal.
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  #40  
Old 07.01.2012, 20:44
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Re: Is it really legal to download in Switzerland?

Legal or illegal is now moot... Your personal details are protected by very strict Swiss privacy laws which makes private prosecution impossible as they cannot get your name and address from your I.P. address.

Ever tried suing an I.P. address ?
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