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Old 12.06.2014, 16:10
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

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Swisscom's prices now being completely out of touch with reality unless you live in a place where you have no other choice or are rich enough to pay anything. I don't see anyone who lives in an urban area (provided you aren't in a building with walls as thick as a nuclear blast shelter) being dissatisfied with Orange or Sunrise.
Once the corporate sector start to realise that there are major savings to be had by moving away from Swisscom, they'll be forced to have more consumer friendly pricing. I run a Swisscom 4G work phone alongside an Orange 4G personal phone and notice absolutely no difference in Basel, Zurich or the highway 'tween the two, so its not even a case of having to compromise.
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  #42  
Old 12.06.2014, 16:14
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

Or swisscom just play silly buggers with there wholesale prices and termination fee's and screw everyone over.

not like they have a track record of doing it
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  #43  
Old 14.06.2014, 17:12
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

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Not sure where you got this information. It's Orange he that's investing a crapload in their new 4G network. sunrise hasn't been doing much and the network is falling further and further behind Swisscom, as the latest independent network test by Connect showed. If you look at the 4G coverage maps, you'll see that Sunrise is a distant 3rd when it comes to high speed mobile networking. While Swisscom and Orange have been expanding their 4G networks at a very high pace, Sunrise seems to be doing nothing and has 4G only in a handful of larger urban areas.

That said, I also think their new tariffs are great.
Thanks, Darwiz. You got me interested so I did some digging about the different networks and technologies which was quite interesting when you consider what each operator has done and what it indicates about their strategies.

First, the 4G/LTE coverage thing. You are right: Swisscom says it had 85% by year end 2013, Orange about the same, Sunrise 70%. By end of 2014, Swisscom says it should have 90%+, Orange 95% and Sunrise 85% according to comments each have said. So, Orange would appear to have the widest 4G coverage. However, a technician at ETH told me that Sunrise and Orange use different definitions of "coverage" (Orange is any signal, ie like 1 bar, whilst Sunrise is -78db (apparently this is like 3 bars, but not exactly - one for the engineers out there) and Swisscom is somewhere in between. More importantly, though, the issue after a while is "so what"?! I want national coverage but realistically I spend 95% of my time in populated areas and so how much do I really care if some not very populated village or road doesnt have 4G? Probably this is the same for most people. But, you need to be at least at 70% population coverage for this to be relevant. => My conclusion: the boast about population coverage at these levels is really just a marketing gimmick.

However, the bigger deal is what you use the phone for. Most people don't realise (ok, I didn't but I do now!): YOU CAN'T MAKE PHONE CALLS ON 4G! Apparently, when you are on 4G, the phone has to hunt for a 3g or 2G signal to make a phone call. In fact, if you are on 4G, it can take longer than if the phone was never on 4G. My conclusion => if you want to make calls with your phone, don't look at 4G. This will change, not soon but maybe with the Iphone 6S or similar, but it can't with your existing phone.

So, you need a good 3G for calls and a 4G for data. Swisscom and Sunrise have built low and high frequency combined 4G and 3G systems and Orange only a high frequency 4G, and in fact they did it by switching off their 1800 GSM and converting it into 4G which they could do very quickly. My conclusion: => if you want a system that is good for calls and data, then it's Swisscom and Sunrise only. This is even more critical in the building. Actually, you could even go further and say that for data, WiFi is even better than 4G, so maybe 3G is the most important as you can get WiFi pretty much everywhere and you have to be able to make phone calls?

In passing: Cablecom's mobile offering doesn't even have 4G, probably because they think WiFi is eveything. Strange decision to partner with the best 4G network (if Orange really is) and not to take the 4G but to use the worst 3G/2G network!! My conclusion => Cablecom MObile could be neat if you only stay near cablecom hotspots but in reality we want voice and data everywhere so that doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway, I then looked at the websites to see how much each was spending. Orange spent 170m last year on capital and some of that was for a new IT system. Sunrise spent 280m, so of which was for its fixed network. If you said the IT system was 20m and the Sunrise fixed network and the rest was 40m, it would be 150 (ora) vs 240 (Sun), ie Sunrise is spending like 60% more.
- Does it make a difference? Connect test 2013 gave Orange 385 and Sunrise 405. It also said Sunrise was better for phone calls (and, if I read the German right, the best of the three for tablet use!). [ http://www.connect.de/vergleichstest...-1900236.html]
- Why is Sunrise spending so much? Again, back to ETH Engineer, who said it is just more expensive to build these low frequency integrated networks than if you "dash for 4G and spread it thin"

So, I think where I would come out is that if money were no object, I'd go for Swisscom because it rates better on Connect (440) and it just has to be everywhere somehow. Money is relevant, though, so pre-Freedom it was an open game. The Sunrise Freedom idea is a game-changer, though, as this industry is moving fast and I want to be able to get a new handset when I want (by the way, the new HTC M8 is awesome). Swisscom would be mad to switch to Freedom as they have all these high spending consumers who would move if they were woken up. I'm telling my friends to switch to Sunrise Freedom now the network works and the people are nicer. For a kid it is even more of a no brainer (the Swiss definition of a kid being like below 30... I had a kid by then ha ha) as MTV Freedom is like Freedom but artificially cheaper! The package with Sunrise internet makes it all better value still, although the speed is slower than Swisscom (ie like Sky vs Virgin) and the TV is half cooler and half more unusual.

It's nice to see finally that choice is back in the market. I imagine it is perfect for Swisscom, paradoxically: Sunrise gets a bit of market share, Swisscom gets to lock up the super high spenders that believe nothing is better than Swisscom, and Orange spends a lot of advertising so the regulator believes there is more competition!! Given what it costs Sunrise to get this far, looking at the 2013 numbers, I doubt they can spend even more to get even more, but for us it's great and we should use it or we'll lose it and go back to days we used to get CHF 500+ phone bills.

That's my 2c.
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  #44  
Old 14.06.2014, 18:22
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

Really interesting and informative post, cheers. Who said you can't learn anything on a lazy Saturday?
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  #45  
Old 14.06.2014, 20:14
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

My sunrise sim is connecting to Femto network since few days, any ideas? This is in geneve btw
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  #46  
Old 15.06.2014, 00:32
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

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Thanks, Darwiz. You got me interested so I did some digging about the different networks and technologies which was quite interesting when you consider what each operator has done and what it indicates about their strategies.

First, the 4G/LTE coverage thing. You are right: Swisscom says it had 85% by year end 2013, Orange about the same, Sunrise 70%. By end of 2014, Swisscom says it should have 90%+, Orange 95% and Sunrise 85% according to comments each have said. So, Orange would appear to have the widest 4G coverage. However, a technician at ETH told me that Sunrise and Orange use different definitions of "coverage" (Orange is any signal, ie like 1 bar, whilst Sunrise is -78db (apparently this is like 3 bars, but not exactly - one for the engineers out there) and Swisscom is somewhere in between. More importantly, though, the issue after a while is "so what"?! I want national coverage but realistically I spend 95% of my time in populated areas and so how much do I really care if some not very populated village or road doesnt have 4G? Probably this is the same for most people. But, you need to be at least at 70% population coverage for this to be relevant. => My conclusion: the boast about population coverage at these levels is really just a marketing gimmick.

However, the bigger deal is what you use the phone for. Most people don't realise (ok, I didn't but I do now!): YOU CAN'T MAKE PHONE CALLS ON 4G! Apparently, when you are on 4G, the phone has to hunt for a 3g or 2G signal to make a phone call. In fact, if you are on 4G, it can take longer than if the phone was never on 4G. My conclusion => if you want to make calls with your phone, don't look at 4G. This will change, not soon but maybe with the Iphone 6S or similar, but it can't with your existing phone.

So, you need a good 3G for calls and a 4G for data. Swisscom and Sunrise have built low and high frequency combined 4G and 3G systems and Orange only a high frequency 4G, and in fact they did it by switching off their 1800 GSM and converting it into 4G which they could do very quickly. My conclusion: => if you want a system that is good for calls and data, then it's Swisscom and Sunrise only. This is even more critical in the building. Actually, you could even go further and say that for data, WiFi is even better than 4G, so maybe 3G is the most important as you can get WiFi pretty much everywhere and you have to be able to make phone calls?

In passing: Cablecom's mobile offering doesn't even have 4G, probably because they think WiFi is eveything. Strange decision to partner with the best 4G network (if Orange really is) and not to take the 4G but to use the worst 3G/2G network!! My conclusion => Cablecom MObile could be neat if you only stay near cablecom hotspots but in reality we want voice and data everywhere so that doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway, I then looked at the websites to see how much each was spending. Orange spent 170m last year on capital and some of that was for a new IT system. Sunrise spent 280m, so of which was for its fixed network. If you said the IT system was 20m and the Sunrise fixed network and the rest was 40m, it would be 150 (ora) vs 240 (Sun), ie Sunrise is spending like 60% more.
- Does it make a difference? Connect test 2013 gave Orange 385 and Sunrise 405. It also said Sunrise was better for phone calls (and, if I read the German right, the best of the three for tablet use!). [ http://www.connect.de/vergleichstest...-1900236.html]
- Why is Sunrise spending so much? Again, back to ETH Engineer, who said it is just more expensive to build these low frequency integrated networks than if you "dash for 4G and spread it thin"

So, I think where I would come out is that if money were no object, I'd go for Swisscom because it rates better on Connect (440) and it just has to be everywhere somehow. Money is relevant, though, so pre-Freedom it was an open game. The Sunrise Freedom idea is a game-changer, though, as this industry is moving fast and I want to be able to get a new handset when I want (by the way, the new HTC M8 is awesome). Swisscom would be mad to switch to Freedom as they have all these high spending consumers who would move if they were woken up. I'm telling my friends to switch to Sunrise Freedom now the network works and the people are nicer. For a kid it is even more of a no brainer (the Swiss definition of a kid being like below 30... I had a kid by then ha ha) as MTV Freedom is like Freedom but artificially cheaper! The package with Sunrise internet makes it all better value still, although the speed is slower than Swisscom (ie like Sky vs Virgin) and the TV is half cooler and half more unusual.

It's nice to see finally that choice is back in the market. I imagine it is perfect for Swisscom, paradoxically: Sunrise gets a bit of market share, Swisscom gets to lock up the super high spenders that believe nothing is better than Swisscom, and Orange spends a lot of advertising so the regulator believes there is more competition!! Given what it costs Sunrise to get this far, looking at the 2013 numbers, I doubt they can spend even more to get even more, but for us it's great and we should use it or we'll lose it and go back to days we used to get CHF 500+ phone bills.

That's my 2c.
Thanks for the full explanation indeed. However, i've my own view on all this: reality is often far from what figures and engineer says. How many cars are being call back every years? Millions if not billions despite huge money. Money is not everything - people make the difference.
Actually being a Swisscom customers for years, I can tell their network quality is moving down for years. Since, I started having difficulties to make calls in train or stations I will change soon for another one.
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  #47  
Old 16.06.2014, 19:10
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

I'm moderately surprised with sunrise, my toy abo which costs 29 a month flat rate is getting me the Germany/Portugal match on the train passing by Schwyz.

I expect that to change as I hit the Alps....!

And it's still EDGE at my house.....
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  #48  
Old 24.09.2014, 10:44
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

Some questions and ideas about Sunrise freedom.

I am on an old plan where for Chf65month I get unlimited phone,sms and data, any discussions with Sunrise shop/call operators tell me if I want to change anything I must move to Sunrise Freedom. Ok still Chf65 but data limited to 5Gb, so the question is if I do nothing the old contract automatically renews? I buy a new 4g phone, stay on the old contract and for Chf65 get unlimited 4g and calls? Is this correct? Is 4g connected to a conract?

Plan B
New contract Sunrise Begin Chf20 month add Speed extra option (Chf1day for 1Gbdata) again unlimited calls/sms for Chf50 total in a month.

I am averging about 6/7Gb a month on data, any thoughts?

Amazing company in that everytime I ask any questions I get a new answer.
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Old 06.10.2014, 00:32
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

Thanks to EF, I availed of qoqa.ch offer of a 1year “Now Relax” Sunrise subscription for only CHF29/month last year. Without the discount, it would have cost CHF75 per month. I plan to continue using Sunrise but without discount, CHF 75 monthly will be on the high end for me.

Barring any late breaking special offers , I would settle for one of Sunrise’s new Freedom packages. The CHF50/monthly caps at 1GB high speed data but data continues unlimited at lower speed. The 20CHF caps at 500mb. I am contemplating between these 2 packages, I realize I have free WiFi in most of the places I would possibly use internet. Additionally I am hoping the UPC WiFree will soon be a reality (is it on yet?)

I understood there were many of us in EF who took this offer from qoqa.ch in Nov13, with contract affectivity 27Dec13. We have around 2 months to go and I would be glad to hear what others are now up to before our contracts expire. I go along with RTN to welcome your advises.
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  #50  
Old 06.10.2014, 02:01
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

Of you have the qoqa plan, just carry on using it for life. It was a one-year contract but it doesn't expire.
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:14
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

Yeah, I have the qoqa plan and don't plan on changing until 5G comes along.
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Old 06.10.2014, 10:59
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

Indeed the qoqa plan is now reaping benefits for me in a 3g tablet running Netflix
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Old 21.07.2015, 11:09
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

I'm thinking about switching to one of the Sunrise Freedom plans. For those of you who switched, how is has the experience been? How is the coverage? The customer service? And, if you're on a limited data plan, how is the functionality after you hit your monthly limit and it slows down? Thanks for any input!
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Old 25.07.2015, 13:51
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

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I'm thinking about switching to one of the Sunrise Freedom plans. For those of you who switched, how is has the experience been? How is the coverage? The customer service? And, if you're on a limited data plan, how is the functionality after you hit your monthly limit and it slows down? Thanks for any input!
Same here. Recently I started considering sunrise as an in-family option. Previously bought swisscom in a rush. Now just had a question, do sunrise phones come network locked? Could i buy their subscription with a phone and then swap the phones with another person?
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  #55  
Old 25.07.2015, 13:54
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Re: Sunrise becomes Switzerland uncarrier

From my own experience, Sunrise has been absolutely terrible when it comes to customer service and their network is far worse than Swisscom as soon as you leave densely populated areas.

Phones come unlocked, but they're not part of your subscription anyway - you get them on a separate finance plan, which can be tricky if you don't have a credit history in Switzerland yet.
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