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Old 27.01.2010, 21:26
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HDTV and Audio thread

There have been a few posts about HDTV recently and seeing as I am bored here at work and it's late I thought I'd write down some stuff I know.

In aeons past TV was transmitted in 480i NTSC in the US and 576i PAL in Europe (the i stands for interlaced) The resolution of said US picture was 640x480 or 720x576i in Europe.
Your old television draws lines on the screen 60 times a second. If your TV's resolution was 8x6, it would look like this:

X X X X X X X X
O O O O O O O O
X X X X X X X X
O O O O O O O O
X X X X X X X X
O O O O O O O O

An interlaced TV means that the first 1/60th of a second, the TV draws the odd numbered lines, like this:
X X X X X X X X

X X X X X X X X

X X X X X X X X
The second 1/60th of a second it draws the even numbered lines, like this:

O O O O O O O O

O O O O O O O O

O O O O O O O O

Then along came HD-High Definition telly, at 720p and 1080p (the p stands for progressive) This means that the picture is drawn once completely every 1/60th of a second thereby creating a better picture.

The 1/60th in the above examples is the refresh rate. The higher the refresh rate the better the picture.

The only thing you need to be aware of is that some older Televisions (and some current cheaper TV's) have a native resolution they display at and if they receive a signal they don't understand will down convert back to standard 480i.

e.g. I play an Xbox game which outputs at 720p but my TV is natively set at 1080i, it will down convert the picture to 480i. Which means I get a pants picture.
That being said most TV's will now up convert the picture to their native format.

1080p v 720p
1080p is marketed as "True HD" and so it is...sort of.
720p resolution = 1280x720
1080p resolution = 1920x1080
So basically with 1080p you get a lot more detail. However if you buy a TV with a screen size of under 45" you aren't going to notice the difference between a 1080p picture and a 720p picture.
Why? because the pixels are so damned tightly packed together already in a 720p that there isn't a whole lot of improvement bunging more in will do.
Basically the closer the lines of pixels are together the clearer picture.
Also most devices (except blueray players) will only output at a maximum of 720p..SkyHD included.
You will only use your 1080p picture when you watch a blueray.

I posted this in another thread, but here it is again.

If you are going to sit 6 foot away from your telly do not buy a 50" telly you are wasting your time.
There is also a viewing distance calculator here
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html
to double check.

Cables.
Do not buy gold coated, diamond encrusted cables. Buy the cheapest ones you can get and use them. Unless you have the hearing of a bat you will not notice the difference. (my opinion) Speakers make much more of a difference than cables.

Connections
Use HDMI for picture and sound. Make sure your new TV has HDMI 1.3a connectors (its the latest standard) and the only type that will support true HD sound. If you don't have 1.3a then use optical cables for your sound output if you can and stick with the HDMI for your picture.

Plasma or LCD
Most manufactures stopped making Plasma TV's.
The disadvantages of Plasma's are:
Burn in - if you leave a picture on the screen for a long time it will burn onto the screen.
Halflife - the picture quality will degrade over time (a very long time)

The advantages are better blacks (although not as good as a traditional CRT telly) and colour display overall.
No dead pixels (the plague of large LCD TV's, still)

LCD. Usually thinner than a plasma and not susceptible to screen burn.
The disadvantages are that the blacks are often grey and if you have a response time of over 10ms you will see ghosting on the screen (note: I've not seen a LCD with over 10ms response time in years.)

Basically if you want the best picture you can get, go buy an old tube CRT television that your Grandad still uses. Otherwise go Plasma if you buy over 42" and LCD under that. (My opinion again of course)
Manufacturers I would look at:
Sony, Panasonic, Samsung.

EDIT: thanks axman
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Last edited by PlantHead; 28.01.2010 at 13:12.
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Old 27.01.2010, 21:58
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

That's a VERY useful set of facts - I'm going to print it out and take to the shops when I go browsing. We now sit further away and either need a bigger TV or binoculars.

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I am bored here at work and it's late
Go home and watch the telly!
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Old 28.01.2010, 12:56
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

Thanks, very useful.

- isn't 480i the US standard (NTSC) and in Europe we get the better 576i? This explains why if you have a TV with good upscaling and a broadcaster with high bit rate, the difference between SD (576) and HD (720p) is not as big as we think.

- how come BBC HD and ITV HD transmit at 1080i? So does that mean that they first of all upscale the picture from a lower resolution to a higher resolution by "filling in the blanks", and then they draw the odds and even numbers separately? So it is a double whammy?

Quote:
If you are going to sit 6 foot away from your telly do not buy a 50" telly you are wasting your time.
This doesn't sound right. I think if you are sitting 6 feet away, a 50" TV is going to make viewing uncomfortable (too near, have to move your eyes and head a lot of follow the action). I think the chart is meant to be read the other way round: if you are sitting 12 feet, you won't notice the difference between Full HD and HD ready if your TV is smaller than 48 inches.

- pioneer is not in the flat TV business anymore.
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Old 28.01.2010, 13:03
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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Cables.
Do not buy gold coated, diamond encrusted cables. Buy the cheapest ones you can get and use them. Unless you have the hearing of a bat you will not notice the difference. (my opinion) Speakers make much more of a difference than cables.
I wouldn't entirely agree with that, at least not getting the cheapest cables possible, some nice thick and well insulated cables do make a difference (with nice speakers), you should also only keep them as long as you need. Shouldn't go anywhere near breaking the bank though.

Last edited by cyrus; 28.01.2010 at 13:18.
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Old 28.01.2010, 13:13
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

Just reading, that actually SKYHD is largely broadcast in 1080i (and not 720p as I thought)
I will have a look at 1080i tonight and see if i can spot any difference in the quality, although I think or thought that most HD television was shot in 720p, which would mean that SKY had to upscale all the programmes to 1080i before sending, which would impact on picture quality.
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Old 28.01.2010, 13:58
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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Also most devices (except blueray players) will only output at a maximum of 720p..SkyHD included.
You will only use your 1080p picture when you watch a blueray.
Some Playstation 3 games have 1080 output, though most of the PS3 games have 720p.
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Old 08.02.2010, 13:11
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread



Rather interesting video on configuring your reciever I got from Krlock.
I never realised before I needed to set my front speakers up as small.

Also does anyone know how to correctly set up a subwoofer, from cabling to settings.
Been playing with mine all weekend and I think I am as confused now as I have ever been.
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Old 08.02.2010, 13:30
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

perhaps a few details on the OLEDs as well?
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Old 08.02.2010, 13:50
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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perhaps a few details on the OLEDs as well?
No real need as there is only one OLED in the world (which is 11" in size)
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Old 08.02.2010, 13:59
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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No real need as there is only one OLED in the world (which is 11" in size)
It's an up-and-coming technology. Plus I think LG has a 15 inch one out.
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Old 08.02.2010, 14:57
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

Most broadcaster will use 1080i i.e. over cable or satellite. This is because of bandwidth. Most new TV's should convert 1080i to 1080p, this is relatively simple by combining the odd and even lines into a single frame.

I think some of the higher end/frequency TV's also create additional frames. i.e. the 240Hz Sony adds frames by doing an interpolation between 2 frames and creating a new frame inbetween. This is meant to make fast action i.e. sports look smoother.

I would NOT buy the cheapest cables, but ensure good quality, but would not spend a fortune on them. HDMI 1.3 should be supported by the cables (1.4 is coming which supports the 3D TV's which I don't think will take off).

If you want the best from Blu-ray and the HD audio formats, you will need to use HDMI to transmit the audio to a Amp/reciever which supports the latest formats. Optical does not have the bandwidth for the HD-Audio data.
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Old 08.02.2010, 16:14
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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I would NOT buy the cheapest cables, but ensure good quality, but would not spend a fortune on them. HDMI 1.3 should be supported by the cables (1.4 is coming which supports the 3D TV's which I don't think will take off).
For HDMI, it doesn't matter how cheap they are. They either work, or they don't.

You won't get a better picture quality with a better cable in the same way you won't get a better photo from your printer if you use a better USB cable.
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Old 08.02.2010, 16:26
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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For HDMI, it doesn't matter how cheap they are. They either work, or they don't.

You won't get a better picture quality with a better cable in the same way you won't get a better photo from your printer if you use a better USB cable.
I agree with this. The only exception is when you're doing an usually long cable run. It's possible to exceed 30m with the right cable. Long cable runs separate the men from the boys.
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Old 08.02.2010, 16:29
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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I agree with this. The only exception is when you're doing an usually long cable run. It's possible to exceed 30m with the right cable. Long cable runs separate the men from the boys.
Absolutely, but for those runs it is much better to use HDMI to CAT5 converters.
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Old 08.02.2010, 16:41
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

Hmm, I didn't know those existed. What kind distance can you get (without using an active repeater)?
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Old 08.02.2010, 16:43
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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Hmm, I didn't know those existed. What kind distance can you get (without using an active repeater)?
I've done 100m with Cat6 cabling. Just Google hdmi cat5 and loads of results come up.
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Old 09.02.2010, 08:44
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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I've done 100m with Cat6 cabling. Just Google hdmi cat5 and loads of results come up.
Yes most will do 100m with Cat 5 / 5e you can go further but they advice using cat 6 or 7 for that.

You need two cables normally, one for Video, one for Audio.

There are also HD A/V distribution systems based on Cat 5 so fom one source you can feed multiple TV's around the house.

I even read a while ago about a company that released a system for distribution over IP (so over your standard network).
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Old 09.02.2010, 13:00
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

Found the link:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/j...over-ip-solut/
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Old 09.02.2010, 15:52
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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For HDMI, it doesn't matter how cheap they are. They either work, or they don't.

You won't get a better picture quality with a better cable in the same way you won't get a better photo from your printer if you use a better USB cable.
I am confused by this. I have read numerous opinions that because the signal is digital, they either work or they don't.

Using your analogy of USB cable, lets talk about the source of your printing i.e., the PC. If it is all digital anyway, and assuming that the photo originally is of high quality, it doens't matter if I have a 5 year old PC or a brand new top of the range PC. All it matters is that I have a good printer. This I agree.

If that is the case, then why do we need to buy a good quality CD / DVD / Bluray player from Sony of Pioneer when any cheapo Chinese no-name brand one will do? If it is digital, then either it works or it doesn't, right?
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Old 09.02.2010, 16:31
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Re: HDTV and Audio thread

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I am confused by this. I have read numerous opinions that because the signal is digital, they either work or they don't.


If that is the case, then why do we need to buy a good quality CD / DVD / Bluray player from Sony of Pioneer when any cheapo Chinese no-name brand one will do? If it is digital, then either it works or it doesn't, right?
It all boils down to the quality of the compenents. In CD/DVD/BD players There are lots of moving parts, lenses etc.. that get the data off the disc itself, then there is the components used to handle this data, plus Error corrections etc... Quality will depend on number 'bits' etc.. For CD's the digital information is converted to analogue etc.. On top of this is the quality of the power supply and if different component groups share the same power supply or have separate ones (to avoid interferance etc...)..

I suggest some google searches on these topics.
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