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Old 08.10.2016, 16:08
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marton marton is offline
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Re: Wow, CHF to GBP exchange rate is pretty crazy at the moment...

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i don't know anyone who said that. It's obvious that Brexit will have many consequences -- some positive, some negative, some immediate, some long-term. I'm not sure why, or how, anyone would claim otherwise. As a Leave voter myself, I've said a hundred times that we won't know the true consequences of Brexit for many years. In fact, you could say that we will never know, because the world would be a different place if we'd stayed in the EU, so no comparison is possible.

But here's the thing -- as (mostly) business people here on this forum, we know full well that when you experience a big change, or some sort of potential threat, the last thing to do is to wring your hands and weep and wail for any length of time. No, what we do is look at where we are, where we want to be, and work out a plan that will get us there, and one that will take into account the interests of those whose cooperation we need. I genuinely believe that nothing is impossible here, and that Brexit can be a win-win for the UK and the EU.

The biggest threat to a happy outcome is human frailty, particularly that exposed by politics and ideology. There are many EU politicians and back-office eurocrats who have invested an entire career in the vision of a federal European state. For reasons I understand, but despise, many of them will not be sufficiently mature to accept a dent in their ideology. The lazy way to respond is to try to make life hard for the UK. It's a despicable position, but that's human nature. In a year that has major French and German elections, the chest-beating and willy-waving will only intensify.

EU membership since 2004, which has seen millions of EU citizens from low-wage economies, move to the UK to work, has greatly disadvantaged the lower paid, less educated in the UK, and this is the group that voted in large numbers to leave the EU.

Quite right, and in fact this was a major part of the Leave campaign's platform. It was summed up by the slogan, "Let's take back control". The slogan is much derided, but as you rightly say, it's a key consequence of Brexit. I would call this a great benefit, while others regard it as a bad thing. Let's wait and see.

One other thing -- you mention "nationalism" a few times which is a dangerous word that means different things to different people. There's negative nationalism and racism, which are obviously bad. Then there is self-confident nationalism, as seen (arguably) in the Scottish and Welsh Nationalist parties, and among enlightened Brexit voters. I do love Britain, and want to see it do well. I also love Europe and want it to thrive. Being patriotic and proud of your heritage doesn't HAVE to mean hating others, being xenophobic, racist, and so on.
Strange that many people describe Remainers as moaners while the most of the moaning here is from Leavers complaining the EU are going to be nasty to us.

Obviously in any Brexit negotiation the EU will try to get the best position for themselves; it is naive to imagine otherwise.

From the next President of the Council of Europe "UK will be treated 'like Greece' and get a tough deal during Brexit talks.
Joseph Muscat expects UK to be left with 'fair' but 'inferior deal' after negotiations"

'fair' but 'inferior' is a reasonable expectation unlike "It's a despicable position" which is emotional and not factual

BTW there are not millions of EU citizens from low-wage economies in the UK; take a look at the UK Govt. published figures.
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