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Old 19.03.2021, 14:19
RufusB RufusB is offline
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Re: Equal rights for women

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Having children is your personal choice, nobody forces you.

Choices have consequences, that's a fundamental fact of life. Deal with the consequences of yours yourself, don't expect society to do it for you.
Lots of couples decide together to have children. It only punitively affects women.

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Retirement age is not equal, women also live longer so get a higher return for their AHV contributions. This is clearly unfair to men.
But it will be. And seriously, you're trotting out average life spans as "evidence " of discrimination?

Maybe view it as a form of compensation for those women who had kids. Then view the inequality of that against women who don't have kids in the same way that mandatory health insurance is often explained: as social duty.

I meant actual injustice/ discrimination.

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1971 for federal votes (the only ones that matter), AI stuck it out for local votes until 1991.

US was only 50 years earlier, not a significant number when compared to the timespan of human history.

Tom
1971 is ridiculously late. Appallingly so.

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People ask for examples of discrimination against men? I feel that you haven't exactly lucked in with your ability to bear children. To say "Nana na na na and you guys can't have kids" is simply mean towards guys.

If anyone feels unsafe in parking lots (ok, even in CH ), my muyay thai team is hiring. Self defence and mental stamina are skills like any others, people should invest in them. It is faster than trying to change the entire society.

As per choices - I am with you on this. Looks like it feels like having children translate to hardship and sacrifice for some women. For others it is an honor. Maybe it's cultural.
And this is bull. And disingenuous.

Why should the reaction to women being attacked be that women should become martial arts experts? It's not the entire society that needs to change, just certain attitudes. If everyone merely resisted the urge to attack any one, problem solved. It's not appropriate to blame the victim, which is what you have done here.

The holier-than-thou children argument is also ridiculous. It's very possible to hold two seemingly contradictory opinions simultaneously, eg "I'm privileged beyond words to have my two healthy happy daughters, however it is also true that is has been both hard and
Sacrifices have had to be made.


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CZ was advanced. But maybe it doean't feel like the "right kind of equality" for some women in this thread, since my opinions on female autonomy don't resonate with many girls here.
That's likely because your opinions on autonomy, and what you actually believe autonomy to be, have not been made clear. Can you elaborate? Plus you refer to women as girls and chicks. Which says a a lot about your societal conformation. IMO. Obvs.

Equality does not have types, or kinds.

Once the fundamental inequalities have been established, such as reproduction and its consequences, then everything else should be a no-brainer.

Then, those inequalities (which some will persist in seeing as choice and privilege when it's also in fact a biological imperative) need addressing.

Fact, most women do not decide to, or indeed are able to, have a child without a male partner or at least a sperm donor. Spare me the exceptions that some will no doubt try to twist this with.

Therefore it is a joint decision . The immediate consequences for the male are very slight. For women it is an irrevocable change of state.

Yes, it's biology. Yes it's "choice " (though in cultures with no access to ontraception it's not a choice at all) but is it fair and reasonable that only the woman should be subject to negative consequences? Both from a career/financial POV and also physically without some attempt being made to redress this ultimate imbalance?

Those male Efers with kids - hand on heart, in all honesty, would you have had kids if you had been the one to carry the child and give birth? Were it possible, I mean? Or are you pretty glad your partner had to?

I think it's an interesting debate, one that will likely not be addressed any time soon.

Last edited by RufusB; 19.03.2021 at 15:29. Reason: Clarifying
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