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  #61  
Old 23.09.2021, 13:40
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Why are you singling him out? There were HOW MANY other moderators? Why didn't they step in in that case? Especially that FMF was new to the job.

His removal shows how much this "mix up" stinks. He'd only just become a moderator!
Correct, goes for the while group in principle. He just seemed to be the main proponent of the total laissez-faire approach - which in my eyes failed.

I have no issues with diverse opinions, but I felt the forum lacks structure (127 Covid threads and counting) and I thought the mods should have been clear in drawing transparant red lines for bans.
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  #62  
Old 23.09.2021, 13:43
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Correct, goes for the while group in principle. He just seemed to be the main proponent of the total laissez-faire approach - which in my eyes failed.

I have no issues with diverse opinions, but I felt the forum lacks structure (127 Covid threads and counting) and I thought the mods should have been clear in drawing transparant red lines for bans.
I 100% agree with the last point. What makes me smell a rat though is that of the moderators remaining, most (all?) have been more or less absent from their duties for a year or so at least. Why do they get to hold on to their positions?
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  #63  
Old 23.09.2021, 13:47
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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I 100% agree with the last point. What makes me smell a rat though is that of the moderators remaining, most (all?) have been more or less absent from their duties for a year or so at least. Why do they get to hold on to their positions?
Just because you don't see them post doesn't mean they've been absent. Much of the mod work is done behind the scenes and we will never hear about it.
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  #64  
Old 23.09.2021, 13:49
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Heaven's above, so we can now assume that the OP isn't honest?
Nope.
It was only the very first bit of misinformation on New-English-Forum.ch.
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  #65  
Old 23.09.2021, 13:49
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Just because you don't see them post doesn't mean they've been absent. Much of the mod work is done behind the scenes and we will never hear about it.
But we have been told that FMF was removed as a mod for not getting involved. When discussions ran wild this was made out to be his fault.

Surely not getting involved is a collective failing of all mods?
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  #66  
Old 23.09.2021, 13:50
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Just because you don't see them post doesn't mean they've been absent. Much of the mod work is done behind the scenes and we will never hear about it.
Does it now? Well I had some PM contact with FMF before the recent forum lockdown, and I hope he doesn't mind when I quote him in a recent message:

"Amusingly I do more mod actions than the rest of the team combined"
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  #67  
Old 23.09.2021, 13:57
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Does it now? Well I had some PM contact with FMF before the recent forum lockdown, and I hope he doesn't mind when I quote him in a recent message:

"Amusingly I do more mod actions than the rest of the team combined"
This is not a democracy but just posting in support of FMF. The laissez-faire approach is the best (and most fair) approach to create a platform for open discourse.
(not what TheLocal seems to want though).

He also seemed relatively consistent as far as I could see although doing more makes it exponentially harder to stay consistent so I'm sure there must have been some oversights.
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  #68  
Old 23.09.2021, 14:04
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Hi everyone,

We have now reopened the forum. During the time the forum was closed, we had to analyze the atmosphere of the forum and understand how we can improve this going forward.
Great that the forum is open; it should never have been closed.

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Firstly, we have decided to mix up our moderation and spam deputies teams, this allows us a fresh start on the forum. We understand how hard the moderation team works, especially when you've been doing it for a long time; however, we think sometimes it's good to start fresh, allowing us to bring a new lease of life to the forum. We would like to thank our previous moderators for their corporation.
This seems somewhat disingenuous. The moderation team has been culled and now comprises of four moderators that were part of the team prior to the forum closure. How does this constitute a fresh start?

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As we reopen the forum, we want to make sure this is a place for everyone. We won't tolerate any bullying, false information, conspiracy theories, homophobic remarks, sexist remarks and to be honest the list goes on. But as a member of this forum, you should understand the things that can be offensive to others. Just to be clear we will have a zero-tolerance on these matters. We would like to remind users that any posts that descend into personal attacks will be deleted.
You're in very dangerous territory here. A large part of the value of the forum is derived from the possibility that members have to express a very wide range of opinions. These will inevitably offend other members, but that's ok!

Consider the case of Pliny the Elder, a Roman scientist that lived in the first century AD. Arguably one of the most influential, misinformed men in history. In his Naturalis Historia, Pliny commented on menstruation:

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On the approach of a woman in this state, milk will become sour, seeds which are touched by her become sterile, grafts wither away, garden plants are parched up, and the fruit will fall from the tree beneath which she sits. Her very look, even, will dim the brightness of mirrors, blunt the edge of steel, and take away the polish from ivory. A swarm of bees, if looked upon by her, will die immediately; ... while dogs which may have tasted of the matter so discharged are seized with madness, and their bite is venomous and incurable.
Today, we know the this is patently absurd. However, the evidentiary threshold for disproving Pliny was not crossed for centuries, until the Scientific Revolution. Now in the information age we are able to cross evidentiary thresholds much quicker. Imagine the average medieval woman trying to take on Pliny!

Here is the point: information needs to be tested. By stifling voices and removing posts that may at first appear contentious, then you blunt the advancement of human knowledge as well as steal the learnings that come forth from being wrong.

Are you going to cross the evidentiary threshold to disprove every piece of information that is subsequently posted on this forum and reported as 'false information'? I indeed hope so, otherwise its deletion could not be justified.

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During the course of the coming weeks/months, we will be adding new moderators to the team to make sure we have a fair balance across the board.

I am happy to welcome everyone back, take care and be kind.

The Local
Please can you define what you mean by 'fair balance across the board'? Thanks.
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  #69  
Old 23.09.2021, 14:09
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Hi everyone,

We have now reopened the forum. During the time the forum was closed, we had to analyze the atmosphere of the forum and understand how we can improve this going forward.

Firstly, we have decided to mix up our moderation and spam deputies teams, this allows us a fresh start on the forum. We understand how hard the moderation team works, especially when you've been doing it for a long time; however, we think sometimes it's good to start fresh, allowing us to bring a new lease of life to the forum. We would like to thank our previous moderators for their cooperation.

As we reopen the forum, we want to make sure this is a place for everyone. We won't tolerate any bullying, false information, conspiracy theories, homophobic remarks, sexist remarks and to be honest the list goes on. But as a member of this forum, you should understand the things that can be offensive to others. Just to be clear we will have a zero-tolerance on these matters. We would like to remind users that any posts that descend into personal attacks will be deleted.

During the course of the coming weeks/months, we will be adding new moderators to the team to make sure we have a fair balance across the board.

I am happy to welcome everyone back, take care and be kind.

The Local
sorry, donít recognize your listed reasons for closing down the forum temporarily. The removal of those three mods who were in any way active in their roles just adds to the fluff of your post. Never understood why MC was the longstanding target of the usual suspectsí ire. LiB perhaps had better days when he didnít act as a grumpy bear just out of hibernation banning folk for back talk. FMF? Was good enough to stand in after the previous in transparent shuffle?
Perhaps there'd be less upheaval if the mods knew what the party line was? Do you?
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  #70  
Old 23.09.2021, 14:14
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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This is not a democracy but just posting in support of FMF. The laissez-faire approach is the best (and most fair) approach to create a platform for open discourse.
(not what TheLocal seems to want though).

He also seemed relatively consistent as far as I could see although doing more makes it exponentially harder to stay consistent so I'm sure there must have been some oversights.

I think it has become much more political than even that, sadly. We had a few posters actively contacting the advertisers, and encouraging others to use this sewer tactic, too, to "force" the change, when they couldn't adequately advocate for it in discussions.


We can only imagine the emotive nature of the messages they sent, littered with trigger words, and covert threats they used, should their demands not be met post haste.


If there's not further digging, to truly understand the lay of the land, other voices won't be heard, the types of voices of those who believe in fair fighting (who'd not contact the owners of the forum to moan, let alone the advertisers).
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  #71  
Old 23.09.2021, 14:23
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Iíll reserve judgement as to whether I like it or not until Iíve seen how things develop.

The way I see it is that it couldnít continue as it was so some changes were needed.
As things stand at the moment the four most contentious mods have all been removed (along with FMF who hadnít really been in the position long enough for me to judge) so the complainers from both sides of the spectrum should be happy.
The remaining mods seem to be pretty fair and balanced to me and with some new blood in the mod team things could turn out pretty well.
Not really on here 24/7 but in my perception the remaining mods didnít really moderate very much, latelyÖ
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  #72  
Old 23.09.2021, 14:26
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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I think it has become much more political than even that, sadly. We had a few posters actively contacting the advertisers, and encouraging others to use this sewer tactic, too, to "force" the change, when they couldn't adequately advocate for it in discussions.


We can only imagine the emotive nature of the messages they sent, littered with trigger words, and covert threats they used, should their demands not be met post haste.


If there's not further digging, to truly understand the lay of the land, other voices won't be heard, the types of voices of those who believe in fair fighting (who'd not contact the owners of the forum to moan, let alone the advertisers).

Wow! If what you are saying is true, then that is a really despicable! Some people are really hollow inside and power/influence/ego driven
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  #73  
Old 23.09.2021, 14:45
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Not really on here 24/7 but in my perception the remaining mods didnít really moderate very much, latelyÖ
How do you know which mods were doing what?
Other than the rather obvious bans by LIB I never really saw any evidence of moderation by any of the mods. It seems to me that most of the mod work is done behind the scenes and is not visible to us regular members.

I hadnít logged on in weeks though so it may be that I missed a few things.
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  #74  
Old 23.09.2021, 15:04
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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How do you know which mods were doing what?
Other than the rather obvious bans by LIB I never really saw any evidence of moderation by any of the mods. It seems to me that most of the mod work is done behind the scenes and is not visible to us regular members.

I hadn’t logged on in weeks though so it may be that I missed a few things.
“…in my perception the remaining mods didn’t really moderate very much, lately…“ is not meant to imply I have inside knowledge of which mods did more of whatever mods do when they’re up to scratch. Please take it as an open statement that it seemed to me, the now axed ones seemed more active (as posters too) than those left on the roster
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  #75  
Old 23.09.2021, 15:14
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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I didn't see the lead up to those (Toms for instance). But if that's a problem then action should be restricted to the person who made the decision if incorrect.

Removing FMF after that incredibly short period is totally indefensible. The idea that it's through inaction when "Mirfield" (who? - has he done anything) is a moderator is just silly. He's getting removed because of his views. Which is mad as they are pretty mainstream. The bloke got vaccinated after being infected already.
I don't care who is mod or not, nor did I defend removing FMF. I just stated what was wrong with the forum in my view. I cannot say why he and others were removed, and I will not engage in what already sounds like a "cancel" debate.
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  #76  
Old 23.09.2021, 15:19
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Removing FMF after that incredibly short period is totally indefensible.
Totally agree. But actually the last reshuffle was hardly less inept.
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Old 23.09.2021, 15:26
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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I don't care who is mod or not, nor did I defend removing FMF. I just stated what was wrong with the forum in my view. I cannot say why he and others were removed, and I will not engage in what already sounds like a "cancel" debate.
It is a cancel debate. Why shouldn't people be allowed to spout (IMHO) nonsense? If it is obviously questionable, you know better, right?
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  #78  
Old 23.09.2021, 15:42
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Does it now? Well I had some PM contact with FMF before the recent forum lockdown, and I hope he doesn't mind when I quote him in a recent message:

"Amusingly I do more mod actions than the rest of the team combined"
Quoting a Private Message!!!
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  #79  
Old 23.09.2021, 15:47
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Re: Update regarding the forum

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Is this true?!
FMF told me September 17 that he, MC, and LiB had been demodded. The forum got closed the day before.
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Just because you don't see them post doesn't mean they've been absent. Much of the mod work is done behind the scenes and we will never hear about it.
As for the remaining mods' activity, how likely are you to be an active mod when you haven't posted for two years and returned to the UK, like mirfield? Occam's razor applies.

Last edited by Urs Max; 23.09.2021 at 16:00.
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Old 23.09.2021, 16:00
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Re: Update regarding the forum

MichaelHarold care to come back and answer some of the open questions? Maybe add some meat to the bone as to why you've done what you've done? Clearly there's a good sized proportion of the community who either think what you've done wasn't necessary or hasn't been done with any balance.

Same goes for the de-modded Mods, care to share your side of the story as to what's happened to you? Why you were removed and not the inactive moderators who've contributed very little in recent years?
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