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  #61  
Old 07.06.2016, 13:22
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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So it would seem that pursuing our case could simply force our debtor into bankruptcy and we may not see any of our money, or, at best, very little of it. I wonder what price to put on revenge, which may be the sole motivator if we go further.


Having gone through something similar at the beginning of the year and gone down the lawyer route with the added expense and to be told that the AG of the english Zurich based hairdresser does not have the money to pay their debt - at the time revenge seems a good motivator however, in time the anger disperses and you are happy you didn't do this purely based on revenge.
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  #62  
Old 07.06.2016, 13:29
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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Unfortunately not the case. You need 100,000 to start an AG (in fact I think in some cases only 50,000) but that capital can be used / spent as soon as the company is set up. I would suggest doing a check on them with money house to see what the balance sheet looks like before spending a lot with lawyers.
Yep, only 50K cash actually has to be payed in.
<<Der fehlende Teil des Aktienkapitals muss als 'nicht einbezahltes Aktienkapital' bilanziert werden, wobei dies nur bei Namenaktien möglich ist. Inhaberaktien müssen vollumfänglich liberiert (= einbezahlt) werden.>>
The missing part of the capital must be recognized as 'capital stock not payed in', which is only possible with registered share. Bearer shares must be fully payed in.or similar ..... never ever had to deal with these things in English yet, sorry.

And the 50K - as you said - can actually immediately taken out again to work with.
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Old 07.06.2016, 13:31
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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And the 50K - as you said - can actually immediately taken out again to work with.
The 50k belongs to the company, so can be spent in the normal course of business, many start up's burn through that in the first month.
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Old 07.06.2016, 15:03
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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Having gone through something similar at the beginning of the year and gone down the lawyer route with the added expense and to be told that the AG of the english Zurich based hairdresser does not have the money to pay their debt - at the time revenge seems a good motivator however, in time the anger disperses and you are happy you didn't do this purely based on revenge.
May I ask if your debtor was forced into bankruptcy and if so and there were no assets, is the debt still legally outstanding?
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Old 07.06.2016, 15:36
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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May I ask if your debtor was forced into bankruptcy and if so and there were no assets, is the debt still legally outstanding?


Of course not the company just gets would up. AG is a warning to anyone who does business with them no unlimited liability
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Old 07.06.2016, 15:41
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Of course not the company just gets would up. AG is a warning to anyone who does business with them no unlimited liability
which why you guys call it Ltd.
And GmbH is not much saver either.
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Old 07.06.2016, 15:53
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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Yes, you are right. I suppose that once the firm is forced into bankruptcy we can simply add our claim to other creditors as Jumping Captain mentioned in a previous post and save ourselves the court costs.
You have to keep a close eye on that company though. Should it go bankrupt (usually published in the "Amtsblatt") you must file your claim immediately to get a share of the bankrupt's assets.
You gotta be quick there .... and even if you are, there is a priority rule (employees first and so on) and you'll be somewhere at the end of the line.

You said you get high interest - do you get them? - count the years until you get your money back that way and consider it an interesfree loan (no interest on the bank-account either) once you - at least - got the money back. So you better keep his company alive
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Old 07.06.2016, 16:21
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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May I ask if your debtor was forced into bankruptcy and if so and there were no assets, is the debt still legally outstanding?


To be honest, the said person caused a lot of heartache for our family and we decided not to pursue for health reasons - therefore at the time I was definitely set to get revenge - however, as time has gone on the vengeful feelings I had at the time have receded and therefore only commenting upon you revenge comments - which I fully understand.


From a legal point of view we had a very good Swiss lawyer who specialised in AG issues and as our case didn't get this far I can not properly comment.
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Old 07.06.2016, 17:58
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

One of the failures was to have a loan with the company. At first sight this looks more secure then with a private individual. But the draw back is that a company can go bankrupt, all assets will be liquidated and the money distributed to all debtors, first to the all the employees and the state, then the reminder, if there is any, evenly (based on share of debt) among all remaining debtors.

A private individual can not really go bankrupt in Switzerland. If a debt can not be enforced you will get a certificate of loss (Verlustschein) it is valid for up to 20 years. If your debtor gets money in this 20 years you can start the process again and try to recover your loss.
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Old 07.06.2016, 18:06
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

Thank you for your replies. To clarify a few points, we would only pursue the outstanding debt and not the interest promised.


I meant to ask Collilj if the company was forced into bankruptcy and I completely understand how you would make a decision not to take matters further. It is certainly a very stressful situation.


As far as we can tell, and according to our preliminary report from Moneyhouse there are no other debtors at present and the company has no employees other than the CEO, so I assume this is relatively good news.
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Old 07.06.2016, 18:29
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Re: Betreibung any experiences of the process.

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Thank you for your replies. To clarify a few points, we would only pursue the outstanding debt and not the interest promised.


I meant to ask Collilj if the company was forced into bankruptcy and I completely understand how you would make a decision not to take matters further. It is certainly a very stressful situation.


As far as we can tell, and according to our preliminary report from Moneyhouse there are no other debtors at present and the company has no employees other than the CEO, so I assume this is relatively good news.
You have no idea of the state of affairs, you only know the officers of a company not it's shareholders. Far better to ask them what they can afford to pay you now & each month at least that may you might get something.
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