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Old 30.01.2008, 20:15
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lawyer needed [Zurich/Zug area]

Does anyone know of a good lawyer in Zurich or Zug who could help me with advice on starting a GmBH as an Indian, partnering with a C Permit EU citizen?
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Old 30.01.2008, 21:55
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Re: lawyer needed

Hi,

I Switzerland "lawyers" tend not to do tax and company formations. You are probably best off with a fiduciary agent (treuhand) and tax advisor. See this thread

Finding a tax advisor, consultant or accountant

In Zug I had good contact with http://www.bbtreuhand.ch/en/services.htm

Daniel
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Old 30.01.2008, 22:09
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Re: lawyer needed

Unless you love spending your not yet earned money, you don't really need a lawyer to set up a GmbH. If you do it in Kanton Zürich, many of the notaries actually provides a great support. Check out www.gruenden.ch, get your papers together, talk to a notary (I can recommend the office in Dübendorf) and _then_ decide if you need a lawyer.



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Does anyone know of a good lawyer in Zurich or Zug who could help me with advice on starting a GmBH as an Indian, partnering with a C Permit EU citizen?
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Old 30.01.2008, 22:33
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Re: lawyer needed

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Unless you love spending your not yet earned money, you don't really need a lawyer to set up a GmbH. If you do it in Kanton Zürich, many of the notaries actually provides a great support. Check out www.gruenden.ch, get your papers together, talk to a notary (I can recommend the office in Dübendorf) and _then_ decide if you need a lawyer.
Quite right if all you want is the gmbh structure. It depends what you want to do with it after that might prompt the need for something more.

Daniel
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Old 31.01.2008, 03:20
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Re: lawyer needed

In case you need a lawyer I can recommend CMS von Erlach and Henrici www.cms-veh.com. I have used them a couple of times, and have been very
happy with their services. They are located at Dreikönigstrasse in Zurich.
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Old 31.01.2008, 11:29
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Re: lawyer needed

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Does anyone know of a good lawyer in Zurich or Zug who could help me with advice on starting a GmBH as an Indian, partnering with a C Permit EU citizen?
Before you invest good time and plenty of good money in the CHF 350 per hour lawyer fees, I would suggest putting your issues etc în the open or PM as you wish.

1. Being an Indian complicates but does not make impossible company formation - you have a Swiss "partner".
2. Forming a company be it GmbH or AG (SA or SArl for our French colleagues) is not a particularly difficult thing to do and I and probably a few others can provide you with whatever information you need.
3. Working later for the company as a Swiss employee can be more complicated but again not impossible and as long as the correct order of events is followed is achievable particulary given that you are qualified.

So what do you want to ask that lawyer?

Last edited by Richard; 05.02.2008 at 15:55.
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Old 31.01.2008, 22:21
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Re: lawyer needed

Firstly, thanks to all who have replied to my query as well as PMed me.

My reason for a lawyer/fiduciary agent is not just to start a Gmbh but more to get a permit. As Richard says, that is what is the complication.

On the other hand, people have informed me that my IMD MBA qualification and unique services that I have in a business plan could serve to my advantage as I apply for a B Permit.

My next step is to find out about how best I can pay myself (for the purposes of book-keeping). I believe that a permit is approved upon proof that the company can pay me as an employee, at prevailing market rates.

Has anyone got any suggestions regarding this, besides putting a lumpsum in the bank account?
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Old 05.02.2008, 16:26
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Re: lawyer needed

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Firstly, thanks to all who have replied to my query as well as PMed me.

My reason for a lawyer/fiduciary agent is not just to start a Gmbh but more to get a permit. As Richard says, that is what is the complication.

On the other hand, people have informed me that my IMD MBA qualification and unique services that I have in a business plan could serve to my advantage as I apply for a B Permit.

My next step is to find out about how best I can pay myself (for the purposes of book-keeping). I believe that a permit is approved upon proof that the company can pay me as an employee, at prevailing market rates.

Has anyone got any suggestions regarding this, besides putting a lumpsum in the bank account?
Just one more question before I start to write a short answer to your dilemma. IMD is a Swiss based MBA if I am not wrong world famous out of Lausanne... So if that is the case, what is your current situation? Are you a "student" in Switzerland, employed in Switzerland, unemployed in Switzerland or even not in Switzerland? And if you are currently resident in Switzerland what is your permit?
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Old 05.02.2008, 17:09
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Re: lawyer needed

Hi,
I run my company out of Zug, if you need a lawyer from that canton, then I can provide one. We have been working together for more that 10 years, and have found them very helpfull.

T
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Old 06.02.2008, 00:11
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Re: lawyer needed [Zurich/Zug area]

I am currently in Switzerland, as my student's permit (B Permit) got extended till the end of March.

My permit is issued from Lausanne.
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Old 06.02.2008, 11:12
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Re: lawyer needed [Zurich/Zug area]

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I am currently in Switzerland, as my student's permit (B Permit) got extended till the end of March.

My permit is issued from Lausanne.
And I take it that your student permit was issued two years ago to cover your MBA course at IMD.

So the next question is a probably no - have you any claim to any EU nationality/are you married does your wife/have you any right to stay in any EU country.

Assuming the answer to the above is no you need to do the following:

Ascertain the role that your Swiss partner will play in the company.
Define why you are unique and will be needed for the business to be successful and why it is not possible to replace you with another Swiss person - ie what unique skills have you.
Prepare statutes and registration documents for your company plus a business case with you and a business case without you.

Then you have a choice of how to proceed...
Basically you cannot have a permit as a non-EU person unless you have a large pot of money or a job. Following the new law on foreigners from Jan 08 you also need to have qualifications that stand you apart in order to enter Switzerland to take up a role here ie you cannot come in as a street cleaner. So you need to have a job or an agreement to have a job.

So you now need to understand a little on how Swiss law with respect to businesses work to understand your options.

Lets assume that your company has a business model that requires your being involved ie without you it would sink. If you form the business and the authorities reject your application then you have just wasted a whole load of money in order to form the company which now will not work. So maybe you don't want to do that. So...

You have already written and signed your statutes - as such your company exists as a GmbH in formation. It can function in all respects as a business that is in existence and as such can make you an offer of employment which you can use to try and get a permit. If your application is rejected then you can decide to liquidate the non-existent company according to the statutes.

Alternatively if the company is not based on your abilities then you can form it anyway and then it can make you an offer of employment. You can exist as a part owner of the company even though your residence is not in Switzerland.

Those that have said you should not have any problem getting a job with your qualifications are partly right but it does depend on your background before getting your MBA. If you have a few years of experience which compliments your MBA then the Swiss authorities do favour students who have completed MBA courses in Switzerland and tend to look favourably upon applications from them but no promises here. Generally in order to be sure of a permit you need to have a large and reputable company that is taking you on. Anything else and it is a case of trying.

With respect to getting a lawyer to support your application, this is a tough one as you actually have no legal right to a permit. As such the best that a lawyer can do in this case is a slightly more polished version of the reasons for granting a permit. But from my personal experience from this whole system, physically turning up at the aliens office and submitting the application, by a Swiss person who stays to answer any questions is the best and most successful way.
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  #12  
Old 17.02.2008, 11:51
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Re: lawyer needed [Zurich/Zug area]

Thanks, Richard. Your post does make things very clear.

In the meantime, I have also realised that lawyers here don't really want to negotiate much with the authorities, so am trying to find somebody who is best to present my case without 'Chinese whispers'!

Yes, I have had 8 years of experience in Mumbai and Dubai, before doing an MBA, out of which the last 2 years have been as a successful entrepreneur in the field of start-up consulting. In fact, I have come to realise that my experience in the Middle East and India does stand as a unique point v/s other EU nationals, around which I can pivot my case to obtain a permit. My company is aimed as business development, helping companies expand to and from Switzerland. I have also made some points in my case about projects that I already have in hand, and local employees that I would be looking at employing over a 6 month period.

If there is anything else that I might have missed, please do let me know.

Once again, thanks a lot for your help.
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