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Old 01.09.2013, 10:48
Jnk Jnk is offline
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Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

I am deputed and working in Zurich since last 5 years for an Indian offshore company. I have been evaluating a few business ideas to start and came to a time where I think I need to take a call about this.

I tried to go through many threads which had lots of info but I still have some doubts and here I am for advice from EF with some specific questions

1) I am non-EU and on B-permit and my permit has printed below info

"self-employment is subject to authorization" or selbst Erwerbstätigkeit ist bewilligungspflichtig
and Mit Erwerbstätigkeit (with Employment)

I want to understand that while I work for my Indian company and can I start my own business here? and If yes, then

a) how is the authorization process? and what are the things they evalaute before the authorities can give permission?
b) How long does this process takes?
c) What is my chances of getting the permissions?
d) Do they open the permit so that if tomorrow if my business fails, can I again joing some other company?
e) Do they inform the current employer about my intention?

2) I am a Kidney diseased person and have been transplanted already (thanks to my Father-in-law!). Now that medical facilities are good here, I do not have much risk in terms of the treatment and insurance (or do I?) if I go in to self-emplyoment.
Can this medical issue become a hurdle or may be helpful in getting the permit to stay here in Zurich.

3) What are the financial requirements for running something simple like
- creating an online platform for providing services and I am the only one working to begin with and time period of intial 1-2 years

Thanks, JNK
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Old 01.09.2013, 16:27
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

For the permission to be self-employed, you will have to submit a business plan to Amt fur Wirtschaft and if they like your plan, then you can set-up a Gmbh. You will have to pay yourself a salary and contribute towards social security etc, although the moment you register this Gmbh you will immediately lose right to unemployment insurance.

You can skip the approval process if you decided to start an AG instead of Gmbh, in which case as far as the Govt. is concerned you are just an employee of the AG i.e. an employee of one's own Gmbh is considered self employed but an employee of one's own AG passes off as an employee. Unemployment insurance will be lost in both cases as long as you own shares in your company.

Many of these hurdles disappear if you have a C-permit, which you probably can after 5 years provided you know enough German.

Having said all this, I would strongly recommend talking directly to someone from Amt fur Wirtschaft and probably a chat with a lawyer or accountant. First chat is usually free.

I believe that nobody will sabotage your employment by contacting your employer. It is probably even prohibited by law.

As for your health concerns, I wouldn't mix those with the business. As far as I know, these are two separate issues and should be dealt with as such.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert in matters of law. Whatever I said above is all based on my personal experience and is in no-way should be taken as a firm assurance that this how it will happen in your case.
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Old 01.09.2013, 19:23
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

https://www.ch.ch/en/becoming-self-employed/

http://www.kmu.admin.ch/themen/00614...x.html?lang=en
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Old 01.09.2013, 19:37
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

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Many of these hurdles disappear if you have a C-permit, which you probably can after 5 years provided you know enough German.
Which only applies if you were lucky enough to land on a B permit from the start (w/o having to live on L for two years in the beginning).
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Old 01.09.2013, 23:07
Jnk Jnk is offline
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

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Which only applies if you were lucky enough to land on a B permit from the start (w/o having to live on L for two years in the beginning).
Yes, you are right, I saw the below info on federal Website

"If the application is accepted by the cantonal authorities, the entrepreneur is granted at least a short-term residence permit for third-country nationals (L permit) or a residence permit (B permit). Both permits are subject to the L and B permit quotas set annually by the Federal Council."


Do you have any idea on what basis they choose whether to give L permit or B permit?
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Old 01.09.2013, 23:25
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

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For the permission to be self-employed, you will have to submit a business plan to Amt fur Wirtschaft and if they like your plan, then you can set-up a Gmbh. You will have to pay yourself a salary and contribute towards social security etc, although the moment you register this Gmbh you will immediately lose right to unemployment insurance.

You can skip the approval process if you decided to start an AG instead of Gmbh, in which case as far as the Govt. is concerned you are just an employee of the AG i.e. an employee of one's own Gmbh is considered self employed but an employee of one's own AG passes off as an employee. Unemployment insurance will be lost in both cases as long as you own shares in your company.

Many of these hurdles disappear if you have a C-permit, which you probably can after 5 years provided you know enough German.

Having said all this, I would strongly recommend talking directly to someone from Amt fur Wirtschaft and probably a chat with a lawyer or accountant. First chat is usually free.

I believe that nobody will sabotage your employment by contacting your employer. It is probably even prohibited by law.

As for your health concerns, I wouldn't mix those with the business. As far as I know, these are two separate issues and should be dealt with as such.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert in matters of law. Whatever I said above is all based on my personal experience and is in no-way should be taken as a firm assurance that this how it will happen in your case.
Thanks for the valuable info! I am planning for the meeting with Amt für Wirtschaft but this is the ground work which I am doing to get myself prepared with required/practical info on that

I did not understand your message "You can skip the approval process if you decided to start an AG ". Which approval process? the business plan approval or the Permit approval?

Secondly, regarding the approval of business plan, I have read that "creating employement here is one of the main concern" whereas I do not think initial 1-2 years would be able to generate any employment here. Does this makes my case weak?

I have also a huge business plan with global footprints but that I am not willing to pitch for it now because of - Financial Constraints, Lack of business experience, etc...Do you have info about the VCs and their working in ZH/CH? and how will the authorities look into it? - big plan but no financial backing or do they support and make efforts in getting the idea through?
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Old 02.09.2013, 07:54
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

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Yes, you are right, I saw the below info on federal Website

"If the application is accepted by the cantonal authorities, the entrepreneur is granted at least a short-term residence permit for third-country nationals (L permit) or a residence permit (B permit). Both permits are subject to the L and B permit quotas set annually by the Federal Council."


Do you have any idea on what basis they choose whether to give L permit or B permit?
Well, as it says I think. L permit for non-EU's and a B for EU nationals, subject to the quota limits on each. But as you already have a B, they might simply change it over to a self-employed B permit. Whether you could switch your B permit back if the business fails, I would say unlikely, assuming you aren't still working as an employee at your current place. You would be back to being a non-EU citizen looking for a job and technically wouldn't have a valid permit. But check for a definite answer at your meeting because I've no definite info on that. As for support, no, not really. That's why a good business plan and funding set up is essential. It's also why they want to vet your idea to see if it's viable.

I assume part of the difference between a GmbH and AG is due to the set up costs: CHF20,000 for a GmbH against CHF100,000 for an AG. There's more info here:

http://www.co-handelszentrum.com/swi...ny-matrix.html
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Old 12.09.2013, 02:23
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

Is it still possible that I am running a company say GmBH and still employed to one of the Swiss companies in individual capacity? and in this case, how the permit situation would be "Employee or Self-Employee"?
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Old 12.09.2013, 07:21
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Re: Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee)

It would probably depend on the ratio of work allocated. If you work say 80% for the company and only 20% for your own then you would still be considered an employee. But if it's 80% for your own company then you would be considered self-employed is my guess.
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