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  #21  
Old 28.04.2014, 10:41
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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1. Do any e-cigs have FDA or other medical authority approval?
2. Do you know that e-cig you're buying and smoking is genuine (and approved) or hooky?
1. not yet - but there will be very soon as sales of non-regulated liquids will be banned within a few months in the US.

2. you don't and never will. There's going to be a black market for liquids as soon as those with approval will cost considerably more. Considering the fact that 10ml of liquid now cost about 5 Fr. and allow you to smoke the equivalent of up to 10 packs of cigarettes (depending on the device you're using), the same 10ml will probably cost somewhere between 50 and 100 bucks once the new rules start applying.
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  #22  
Old 28.04.2014, 10:44
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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personally, I wouldn't want to sell stuff that kills people.
That leaves out alcohol, trans-fats, any form of personal transportation, skis, etc.

And brown sugar.

Tom
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  #23  
Old 28.04.2014, 10:45
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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That leaves out alcohol, trans-fats, any form of personal transportation, skis, etc.

And brown sugar.

Tom
Alcohol, brown sugar, trans-fats: indeed. Personal transportation and skis: not so much - these don't kill people. People not using them correctly kill people. There's no "correct" way of smoking that will not kill you.
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  #24  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:00
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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There's no "correct" way of smoking that will not kill you.
Nonsense, not all smokers die from smoking.

In fact, nobody actually dies from smoking, rather smoking may cause certain fatal illness, but it doesn't always do so.

Tom
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  #25  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:03
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Nonsense, not all smokers die from smoking.
I sincerely hope you're not claiming that smoking doesn't kill. This is 2014, not 1955.

http://lungcancer.about.com/od/Lung-...ung-Cancer.htm

24.4% of male smokers who smoke more than 5 cigarettes per day will eventually develop lung-cancer (as opposed to 0.2% of men who never smoked). The 10-year survival rate of lung cancer sufferers is less than 5%.

And that's just lung cancer - smoking causes all kinds of other cancers as well. If you factor in heart disease caused by smoking, strokes etc., chances that smoking more than 5 cigarettes a day over a longer (10+ years) period of time will eventually kill you are somewhere between 50 and 75% - that's right up there with asbestos, being a clean-up worker at the Tchernobyl nuclear plant after it blew up or the Ebola virus.

Last edited by dawiz; 28.04.2014 at 12:13.
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  #26  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:10
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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...it's likely to be a 2 or 3 years business and then you need to find an alternative. The thought is to start with only e-cigarettes and e-shishas but then extend to a cigar/smoke lounge which still seems to be doing quite good and then a coffee shop would be a natural extension...
I think that's the part of the business plan you will need to work on. Starting a business in Switzerland seems to expensive and time consuming. If you already think your original idea will be obsolete in 2-3 years you're looking at a lot of money potentially wasted. I don't see the connection between e-cigs and coffee but hey, why not open a coffee shop (something virtually everyone likes) and then offer e-cigs with your Joe to cover that market?
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  #27  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:15
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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There's no "correct" way of smoking that will not kill you.
Until further concrete study is done on e-cigarettes, that is essentially supposition on your part.

There is however no doubt that e-cigarettes have the following advantages over traditional ones:
  • Lack of all the numerous nasty chemicals
  • Vapour dissipates immediately
  • Odourless, no nasty smell
  • Leave no nasty aftertaste
  • Don't give you a raw throat
  • One cartridge is equivalent to 1.5 packs of cigarettes, and costs half the price.

Regardless of whether they are "100% safe" or not, they are much, much preferable to normal cigarettes.
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  #28  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:17
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I don't see the connection between e-cigs and coffee but hey, why not open a coffee shop (something virtually everyone likes) and then offer e-cigs with your Joe to cover that market?
that only works in those cantons where you can actually run a small restaurant that contains a smoking section. Also, your e-cigarette vaping customers might not want to have their coffee together with smokers of regular cigarettes - so you'd have to make that a vape-only café, which might not attract a sufficient number of customers.

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Until further concrete study is done on e-cigarettes, that is essentially supposition on your part.
I was referring to traditional cigarettes. I agree, it's unclear at this point just how harmful (if at all) e-cigarettes are.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 28.04.2014 at 12:40. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #29  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:27
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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What a load of rubbish. E-cigarettes are a great tool in quitting smoking, they greatly decrease the health risks, and Switzerland is a heavy smoking place.
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Until further concrete study is done on e-cigarettes, that is essentially supposition on your part.

There is however no doubt that e-cigarettes have the following advantages over traditional ones:
  • Lack of all the numerous nasty chemicals
  • Vapour dissipates immediately
  • Odourless, no nasty smell
  • Leave no nasty aftertaste
  • Don't give you a raw throat
  • One cartridge is equivalent to 1.5 packs of cigarettes, and costs half the price.
A disadvantage of them is they they appear to be getting young people and teenagers hooked on nicotine* - especially as they are available in kid-friendly flavours.

*I appreciate that some of you here may not see that as a bad thing.
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  #30  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:29
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  • Lack of all the numerous nasty chemicals
  • Vapour dissipates immediately
  • Odourless, no nasty smell
  • Leave no nasty aftertaste
  • Don't give you a raw throat
  • One cartridge is equivalent to 1.5 packs of cigarettes, and costs half the price.

Regardless of whether they are 100% safe or not, they are much, much preferable to normal cigarettes.
1. Lack of numerous nasty chemicals

They don't contain the same chemicals, that's true. But VG and PG are both irritants that haven't been studied sufficiently when it comes to how they behave when they're heated beyond a certain point and inhaled. Heating VG too much will release formaldehyde - that's a fact. Typical e-cigarettes shouldn't heat it up to more than 100 degrees celsius (which is on the safe side). However, it's been proven that some models will produce over 200 degrees.

Liquids also contain food flavours that are not intended for heating up. Cheaply made liquids might also contain pollutants that are not intended to be in there.

I actually favour regulating liquids and e-cigarettes to make sure that they're all produced to high standards.

2. Vapor doesn't contain tar - it doesn't "disappear" however. The remnants of the heating process will still stick to your carpet and furniture. They just don't stink. AFAIK there have been absolutely no scientific studies that tried to figure out how the vapor will affect your surroundings over a longer period of time.

3. True - but odourless doesn't mean healthy. Propane doesn't smell either (unless a flavour is added, which is routinely done in order to prevent accidents)

4. Leaves no nasty aftertaste: true, but again - just because something tastes disgusting doesn't mean it's unhealthy

5. I beg to differ - I tend to get a sore and dry throat from vaping. This depends on how well your body tolerates VG and PG

6. That's true - but the cost factor will change once the governments start taxing the liquids like tobacco.

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A disadvantage of them is they they appear to be getting young people and teenagers hooked on nicotine*
only if the liquids actually contain nicotine - as isn't the case in Switzerland.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 28.04.2014 at 12:41. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #31  
Old 28.04.2014, 12:45
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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only if the liquids actually contain nicotine - as isn't the case in Switzerland.
I wasn't thinking specifically of Switzerland. When you want to look at trends in new products etc in the western world, Switzerland is the last place you'd want to get your data from.
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  #32  
Old 28.04.2014, 13:23
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

children children please!!

its fairly obvious the laws around these are going to change pretty soon, not least because the governments are losing lots and lots of loverly tax money.

Its also pretty clear that at the moment you could be putting any old shit into your body as there is no regulation and most come from china (which isn't exactly known for its strict quality control, cheminals in baby milk anyone?)

nicotine is bad - can we all agree on that? its pretty hard to OD on cigarettes (even if as little as 2 has enough to kill you - if you could get it all in one hit), but I'll wager it wont be long before we see kids od'ing on e-cigarettes.

anyone wanting to make money from other peoples addiction has to have there morals called into question really.
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  #33  
Old 28.04.2014, 13:42
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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E-cigarettes are a great tool in quitting smoking, they greatly decrease the health risks, and Switzerland is a heavy smoking place.
But there's no evidence that they are a great tool in quitting nicotine addition unlike more controlled nicotine-replacement therapies.

Which is fine if people appreciate that when they make the switch.
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  #34  
Old 28.04.2014, 14:01
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

Restaurant and bar owners included ??

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anyone wanting to make money from other peoples addiction has to have there morals called into question really.
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Old 28.04.2014, 14:19
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Restaurant and bar owners included ??
What a silly comment
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  #36  
Old 28.04.2014, 14:19
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Restaurant and bar owners included ??
Food isn't an addiction - it's a necessity.

How many drinkers are alcoholics?

How many smoker are NOT addicted to nicotine?
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  #37  
Old 28.04.2014, 14:25
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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3. True - but odourless doesn't mean healthy. Propane doesn't smell either (unless a flavour is added, which is routinely done in order to prevent accidents)

4. Leaves no nasty aftertaste: true, but again - just because something tastes disgusting doesn't mean it's unhealthy
My point, dawiz, which you seem to be missing from a contextual sense, is that an e-cigarette is much more pleasant to smoke than a regular cigarette. You don't stink, and your mouth doesn't taste like crap.

I am not saying that e-cigarettes are 100% safe with no adverse effects whatsoever, but they do certainly lack many of the main drawbacks of traditional cigarettes.
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  #38  
Old 28.04.2014, 14:29
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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My point, dawiz, which you seem to be missing from a contextual sense, is that an e-cigarette is much more pleasant to smoke than a regular cigarette. You don't stink, and your mouth doesn't taste like crap.

I am not saying that e-cigarettes are 100% safe with no adverse effects whatsoever, but they do certainly lack many of the main drawbacks of traditional cigarettes.
I was just focussing on the uncertain health aspect. But we're both saying the same thing, in essence. I enjoy vaping considerably more than I've ever enjoying smoking cigarettes for the reasons you've mentioned. The only thing I don't like is that it leaves me with a hoarse voice, ever after inhaling only two or three puffs. I've read that this would disappear after a while - but I only vape to relax, really, perhaps 1-2 per week, so my mucus membranes will likely never get use to the PG vape.
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  #39  
Old 28.04.2014, 14:35
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

I'll stick to my shisha! Although she takes time to prepare, she's social when smoked with friends and almost meditative when I smoke her alone. On top of that, it looks cool and there's no smelly clothes or complaining non-smokers who might be nearby.

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Old 28.04.2014, 14:45
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

Personally I prefer cigars.

While I have smoked three or more in a day, it it more like one a month on average.

Can't say that I ever found nicotine addicting.

Tom
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