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  #61  
Old 19.05.2014, 07:06
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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and I will wait until concrete long-term studies appear that say otherwise before changing that opinion. You are of course entitles to whatever opinion you please.
I don't know how old you are - but it could take 20-30 years until it really becomes evident whether e-cigarettes damage your health or not. Lab tests are one thing - epidemiology is another - not sure you're really willing to wait that long :-) Cigarettes were thought to be safe for a loooong period of time.

In any case, apparently the governments aren't willing to take another tobacco-style chance and will act cautiously. Sure, one can claim (perhaps rightfully to to some extent) that they're actions are partially based on worries about losing tax money - but at least part of the new regulations are founded on genuine precaution.

In any case - I believe it isn't prudent for 1/3 of the population to switch smoking habits as long as the health benefits aren't proven at all. I think your argument about the number of harmful chemicals found in cigarettes compared to the smaller number in e-cigs is probably not sound. It's not just the sheer number but also the toxicity of the individual components. And the VG+PG+heat combo could easily prove to be a real killer.
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Old 19.05.2014, 09:12
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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You may decide to open up online first for the e-cigarettes.
Seems like a no-brainer.


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It's not just the sheer number but also the toxicity of the individual components. And the VG+PG+heat combo could easily prove to be a real killer.
This is pseudoscientific poppycock. Following this logic, smokers should be advised to stick with smoking, because at least the risks are known. What drivel.
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  #63  
Old 19.05.2014, 09:16
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Seems like a no-brainer.

This is pseudoscientific poppycock. Following this logic, smokers should be advised to stick with smoking, because at least the risks are known. What drivel.
Got up on the wrong leg? No, smokers should quit smoking if they want to stay healthy and not switch to an unproven habit that's potentially just as dangerous.
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  #64  
Old 19.05.2014, 09:57
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Got up on the wrong leg?
Probably. It's Monday.

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No, smokers should quit smoking if they want to stay healthy and not switch to an unproven habit that's potentially just as dangerous.
I don't understand your motivation for saying that vaping is potentially as dangerous as smoking cigarettes. How does this statement help anyone? It is devoid of any relevant information. Eating barbecued meat is potentially as dangerous as smoking cigarettes - so what?
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  #65  
Old 19.05.2014, 10:03
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Probably. It's Monday.



I don't understand your motivation for saying that vaping is potentially as dangerous as smoking cigarettes. How does this statement help anyone? It is devoid of any relevant information. Eating barbecued meat is potentially as dangerous as smoking cigarettes - so what?
As I posted before:

http://www.nature.com/news/e-cigaret...-cells-1.15015
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/249784.php

Vaping is *potentially* as dangerous as smoking regular cigarettes. Nobody knows if that turns out to be the case, but some evidence pointing in that direction has emerged over the last few months. Moving form cigarettes to vaping for health reasons may turn out to be the same as moving from Asbestos to Fiberglass (for insulation). If you move from smoking cigarettes to smoking e-cigarettes because you don't like the tobacco stench, that's a valid point. But anything else is a gamble at best.
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  #66  
Old 19.05.2014, 10:32
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

You seem to have lost your critical faculties. The first of the articles you cited specifically avoids drawing any conclusions on the health implications of vaping.

The second of those articles spells it out more explicitly:

The medical profession and scientists generally agree that e-cigarettes, if they do pose any dangers to health, are much less harmful than tobacco smoking.

So what exactly is your problem?
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  #67  
Old 19.05.2014, 10:45
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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You seem to have lost your critical faculties. The first of the articles you cited specifically avoids drawing any conclusions on the health implications of vaping.

The second of those articles spells it out more explicitly:

The medical profession and scientists generally agree that e-cigarettes, if they do pose any dangers to health, are much less harmful than tobacco smoking.

So what exactly is your problem?
"You seem to have lost your critical faculties." So, as a critically thinking human being, you're certain that e-cigarettes are healthier than normal cigarettes although there's absolutely not evidence indicating that and there's some initial evidence that it's not the case? The article published in Nature doesn't come to a definite conclusion because a follow-up study is necessary to examine if the altered cells behave like cancer cells or not. Again, the things are *potentially* carcinogenic. Nothing is proven and perhaps they turn out to be benign, but until then, the only rational thing to do to improve your health is to quit smoking. Anything else is, at this point, based on personal beliefs and has nothing to do with critical thinking.

The way I see it, you've switched to e-cigarettes because of health concerns and because you can't kick the habit, you're now scrambling to convince yourself and others that you've made a smart move. But that's just a wild allegation, of course.

So what's my problem? People claiming that habit A is healthier than habit B while there's no proof that this is the case. I'm a vaper myself, btw. - but I do remain critical and am actively trying to kick the habit.
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  #68  
Old 19.05.2014, 13:22
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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The only rational thing to do to improve your health is to quit smoking. Anything else is, at this point, based on personal beliefs and has nothing to do with critical thinking.
Of course everyone should quit smoking. That's a given. And vaping is an excellent way of doing it. My friends who have taken it up would certainly never go back to the dirty, antisocial habit of inhaling smoke.

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So what's my problem? People claiming that habit A is healthier than habit B while there's no proof that this is the case.
Did you really read those articles you cited? The concensus seems pretty clear: vaping may be bad for you, but it's a darn site better than smoking.

By the way, I'm sorry if my avatar misled you - I am neither smoker nor vaper.
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  #69  
Old 19.05.2014, 14:02
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Of course everyone should quit smoking. That's a given. And vaping is an excellent way of doing it. My friends who have taken it up would certainly never go back to the dirty, antisocial habit of inhaling smoke.
But as a method of giving up nicotine addiction, it has 0% success rate.
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  #70  
Old 19.05.2014, 14:53
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But as a method of giving up nicotine addiction, it has 0% success rate.
Yes, but it's the smoke which most affects your health, so e-cigarettes are a less bad option.
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  #71  
Old 19.05.2014, 15:10
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Yes, but it's the smoke which most affects your health, so e-cigarettes are a less bad option.
Oh, I was led to believe it was the nicotine that was bad for one?

Nicotine patches and gum supposed to relieve habit craving?
Haaa ..... all those addicts to cigarettes switch to these substitutes and are still addicted.

So in other words, if smoke is bad, then bbq-ing is also dangerous?

About the e-cigarettes .... I was amused recently to notice two different people clutching something in their hands and taking drags every now and again and puffing out what looked like smoke. After studying them surreptitiously for a while, I gathered they were sucking on their e-cigarettes!
They held them in their fists, not "elegantly" like a normal cigarette ..... as though they were ashamed to be seen puffing?

Much better was the person standing away from the bus queu with a real cigarette openly smoking. No, the bus pulled off before I could witness what they did with the butt.
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  #72  
Old 19.05.2014, 15:19
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So in other words, if smoke is bad, then bbq-ing is also dangerous?
Terrible. If the smoke doesn't kill you, the cholesterol surely will. At some point.

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About the e-cigarettes .... I was amused recently to notice two different people clutching something in their hands and taking drags every now and again and puffing out what looked like smoke.
That's the beauty of vaping. It is so un-cool that all those people who switch from cigarettes will soon get fed up of looking like twonks. And they won't go back to cigarettes because by then they will realise that it's the smoke which is the disgusting, dangerous part. Perfect solution!
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  #73  
Old 19.05.2014, 15:54
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Oh, I was led to believe it was the nicotine that was bad for one?

Nicotine patches and gum supposed to relieve habit craving?
Haaa ..... all those addicts to cigarettes switch to these substitutes and are still addicted.
They do. Probably not as successful as the advertising suggested but they do help people to give up cigarettes (and nictotine).
E-cigarettes do not do this as the nictotine route into the blood is by the same route and with the same, if not higher, intensity and dosage as cigarettes.

The only usefulness that E-cigarettes provide is to allow hopeless addicts, with no intention of giving up, to carry on with their nicotine hits without the harmful effects of smoke.
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  #74  
Old 19.05.2014, 16:07
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The only usefulness that E-cigarettes provide is to allow hopeless addicts, with no intention of giving up, to carry on with their nicotine hits without the harmful effects of smoke.
Only? This is a pretty big advantage isn't?
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Old 19.05.2014, 16:39
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

I've just moved into an apartment in Luzernerstrasse in Bremgarten. An E-cigarette shop has just opened its doors on the bottom floor of our building. Although I don't know much about the industry, it seems to have a steady flow of customers. I think it's called Vapsmoke? Just google e cigarette Bremgarten for more info

Cheers
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  #76  
Old 19.05.2014, 17:22
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Only? This is a pretty big advantage isn't?
I think the jury is still out on that one as not enough research has been done on possible side effects - both physical ones and the other fear that it may get youngsters hooked onto these and then real cigarettes.
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Old 19.05.2014, 17:54
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Terrible. If the smoke doesn't kill you, the cholesterol surely will. At some point.



That's the beauty of vaping. It is so un-cool that all those people who switch from cigarettes will soon get fed up of looking like twonks. And they won't go back to cigarettes because by then they will realise that it's the smoke which is the disgusting, dangerous part. Perfect solution!
So one should give up smoking tobacco, and eating bbq`d meat, to live a long life and die healthy?

Does anyone die healthy? Something kills everybody.

So what relaxing vice can one enjoy these days?

Every country has a natural product that humans (& some animals even) have enjoyed to have a chill out now and again. Problem is they get so chilled it gets banned and they have to find another product, until that gets banned. Primitive tribal folk actually knew how to enjoy their lives, and never got to know about all this shite, till Civilized White Man came along....

Can`t lie in the sun without sunscreen.
Sunscreen causes cancer (maybe)
Can`t smoke tobacco, it causes cancer.
Imitation vapor things also (may) cause cancer.
Can`t bbq meat - smoke causes cancer.
Treatments for cancer even cause cancer.

(Sounds like words for a song?)

Solution? Turn into a vegetarian slug? Live a long and "healthy" life and die of something one day.
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Old 20.05.2014, 16:09
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Can`t lie in the sun without sunscreen.
Sunscreen causes cancer (maybe)
Can`t smoke tobacco, it causes cancer.
Imitation vapor things also (may) cause cancer.
Can`t bbq meat - smoke causes cancer.
Treatments for cancer even cause cancer.

(Sounds like words for a song?)

Solution? Turn into a vegetarian slug? Live a long and "healthy" life and die of something one day.
and now, let's hear the band Smoky and the Vegetarian Slugs with their hit song "Can't do a darn thing cause it's too darn dangerous".

By the way, here's an interesting article which appeared today on the BBC site. Nice summary.
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  #79  
Old 11.06.2014, 18:06
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Re: e-cigarettes - is there a business?

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Personally I prefer cigars.

While I have smoked three or more in a day, it it more like one a month on average.

Can't say that I ever found nicotine addicting.

Tom
Tom, you could probably inject 50mg of pure nicotine directly into your eyeball daily and it would have no effect on you.
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Old 11.06.2014, 18:36
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So in other words, if smoke is bad, then bbq-ing is also dangerous?
Sadly, that appears to be the case.
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