Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Business & entrepreneur
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11.11.2016, 23:37
Mr.Maquiavelo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 261
Groaned at 62 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 184 Times in 92 Posts
Mr.Maquiavelo has slipped a little
IP question while under contract and side project

Hi forum gurus I have a question for you. I'm under contract and the contract in the "Work results" point states:

"The Employer or Assignment Unit is entitled to all material and intangible results which are achieved by the Employee in exercising this Employment Agreement.
Copyrights and other legally protected intangible property rights shall be transferred by the Employee to the Employer or the Assignment Unit. Included herein are in particular all the protected usage and personal rights pursuant to Arts. 9 - 11 Swiss Copyright Law (URG)"


I'm also working in my free time in a personal project that has nothing to do with my day job, really zero. From the legal clause above I don't get whether the intellectual property of the side project I'm working on "shall also be transferred" to the Employer ???
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11.11.2016, 23:40
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 14,370
Groaned at 213 Times in 185 Posts
Thanked 11,723 Times in 6,603 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
Hi forum gurus I have a question for you. I'm under contract and the contract in the "Work results" point states:

"The Employer or Assignment Unit is entitled to all material and intangible results which are achieved by the Employee in exercising this Employment Agreement.
Copyrights and other legally protected intangible property rights shall be transferred by the Employee to the Employer or the Assignment Unit. Included herein are in particular all the protected usage and personal rights pursuant to Arts. 9 - 11 Swiss Copyright Law (URG)"


I'm also working in my free time in a personal project that has nothing to do with my day job, really zero. From the legal clause above I don't get whether the intellectual property of the side project I'm working on "shall also be transferred" to the Employer ???
Yes, it's quite common, your employer owns ALL your work
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 12.11.2016, 00:00
Mr.Maquiavelo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 261
Groaned at 62 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 184 Times in 92 Posts
Mr.Maquiavelo has slipped a little
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
Yes, it's quite common, your employer owns ALL your work
Then how does it work in reality when an employee quits a day job because he achieved a successful e.g. .com business running? He gets sued by the ex employer claiming ownership of the ex-employee new .com business?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12.11.2016, 00:07
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 14,370
Groaned at 213 Times in 185 Posts
Thanked 11,723 Times in 6,603 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
Then how does it work in reality when an employee quits a day job because he achieved a successful e.g. .com business running? He gets sued by the ex employer claiming ownership of the ex-employee new .com business?
It could easily happen. You accepted the terms of the contract when you signed it........
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 12.11.2016, 00:10
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,698
Groaned at 247 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 13,692 Times in 5,810 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
Then how does it work in reality when an employee quits a day job because he achieved a successful e.g. .com business running? He gets sued by the ex employer claiming ownership of the ex-employee new .com business?
yeah. he normally negotiates his contract to specifically exclude work done on his own time. and better still. quits, lays low for a year before surfacing with what he did during the year off :P
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 12.11.2016, 00:19
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 4,660
Groaned at 33 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 8,583 Times in 3,414 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
yeah. he normally negotiates his contract to specifically exclude work done on his own time. and better still. quits, lays low for a year before surfacing with what he did during the year off :P Without having spoken to anyone about the latter plan in a public internet forum ahead of time.
ftfy
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 12.11.2016, 00:30
Mr.Maquiavelo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 261
Groaned at 62 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 184 Times in 92 Posts
Mr.Maquiavelo has slipped a little
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

well then no side projects ... the thing is it would have been possible negotiating this point in the contract but this would somewhat jeopardize the day job in the first place because they want long term and they would potentially deduce that I'm trying to create a business or a side income.

OK but one thing is the theory, another one is in practice. How many ex-employees are sued because of quitting and running a business? I know several ex colleagues that did just that. It seems impossible to prove that you were at home building up something to then open up a business from day one after quitting or?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12.11.2016, 00:38
JKUser's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Western Switzerland
Posts: 61
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 36 Times in 18 Posts
JKUser has no particular reputation at present
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
Then how does it work in reality when an employee quits a day job because he achieved a successful e.g. .com business running? He gets sued by the ex employer claiming ownership of the ex-employee new .com business?
My experience is it depends on the size of your company and your manager's attitude. Larger firms won't care especially if it doesn't relate to their core business (which you typically wouldn't be allowed to pursue in any case in regular contracts). However (regardless of firm size), if your manager or another colleague has some "beef" to settle with you and learns of the potential or success of your invention, product or service, they could pursue you and even in the event that you won the case, they could deliberately ruin you financially just to make a point. That said, my advice would be for you to sit down with a lawyer to understand your rights and regardless of what you learn, take the leap and don't let it stop you. All the best with your project
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JKUser for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 12.11.2016, 02:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,517
Groaned at 119 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 4,602 Times in 2,321 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

I strongly disagree with the gist in the replies. The employment contract is on work hours only, say 40 hours per week. This is why the paragraph starts with:
Quote:
View Post
"The Employer or Assignment Unit is entitled to all material and intangible results which are achieved by the Employee in exercising this Employment Agreement.
What you do with the remainder of your time is completely up to you, OP (provided it doesn't keep you from fulfilling your duties as an employee during regular work hours). As a consequence the employer has no business meddling with the products produced during off hours, provided they don't significantly interfere with or contravene employer's business interests.

It's ridiculous to claim that, say, someone working IT for a bank who has knitting as a hobby, owes all knitting stuff produced during off-hours to the employer. Around here slaves are a thing of the past (perhaps of the future), but not of the present.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 12.11.2016, 06:27
jaudi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: zurich
Posts: 509
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 422 Times in 199 Posts
jaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputationjaudi has an excellent reputation
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
... in exercising this Employment Agreement.
Surely that's the key phrase...I've seen similar conditions worded much less favourably to the worker, but this seems to restrict the scope to activities related to the agreement rather than all activities during the period of the agreement.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12.11.2016, 07:31
Corbets's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zug, CH
Posts: 2,964
Groaned at 161 Times in 116 Posts
Thanked 5,726 Times in 1,940 Posts
Corbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond reputeCorbets has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IP question while under contract and side project

Quote:
View Post
Surely that's the key phrase...I've seen similar conditions worded much less favourably to the worker, but this seems to restrict the scope to activities related to the agreement rather than all activities during the period of the agreement.
Agreed. My previous employer had a clause which felt much less restricted than this one; thus one feels quite fair and obvious.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Movers - pay by bank transfer and contract question keai Housing in general 2 09.11.2015 17:44
Question about maintenance and German contract... aviscido Housing in general 2 12.09.2015 00:02
Advice - VINTA permit C under processing while unemployed seafood Permits/visas/government 2 16.04.2014 22:49
3rd pillar pension top up while under WHT Denman Finance/banking/taxation 3 16.02.2014 19:37
Elance, etc.--project work while looking for full-time Megsandbacon Employment 16 21.02.2013 12:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0