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Old 06.06.2017, 17:14
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Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

Hi! Has anyone used crowdfunding or angel investor sites in Switzerland?

Any advice on the best ones or on other ways of finding funding?

I've got a business plan, decent start up funds and am looking for one or two (relatively) silent investors in exchange for equity.

Thanks!
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Old 06.06.2017, 19:03
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

It really depends on the idea and type of business.
Fintec is getting a lot of money lately.

https://www.swisscom.ch/en/business/start-up.html
angel.com
https://www.six-group.com/de/site/fintech.html
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Old 06.06.2017, 19:17
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

Talk to me. Convince me it's a good idea, I might spin a few thousand your way. But probably not tens of thousand unless it was a really good idea, and certainly not a few hundred thousand or more, because I don't have the money.
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Old 06.06.2017, 19:30
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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Hi! Has anyone used crowdfunding or angel investor sites in Switzerland?

Any advice on the best ones or on other ways of finding funding?

I've got a business plan, decent start up funds and am looking for one or two (relatively) silent investors in exchange for equity.

Thanks!

Feel free to reach out via PM if you'd like a quick chat about various funding options in Switzerland (I'm not one of them, yet can definitely point you in the right direction).
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Old 06.06.2017, 19:33
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

As NotAllThere says, it depends on how much you need. 10,000 - 50,000? There are hundreds of people in Zürich who have that sort of money burning holes in their bank accounts. If you have the right idea (and a track record and good experience) it will be easy to find them.

Try joining the Zürich Entrepreneur Meet Up Group, ask family and friends to spread the word, also spread the word discreetly in your industry and on Social Media. There are also a few Crowdfunding sites (a friend of mine recently started this one which has already raised quite a bit).

Be careful how much equity you give away and be sure to have a good contract highlighting how much influence investors can have or pressure they can put on you.

If it's serious money (as in the millions) you would need to be much more serious I guess (and that sort of funding is beyond my experience). Good luck.
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Old 06.06.2017, 19:43
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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As NotAllThere says, it depends on how much you need. 10,000 - 50,000? There are hundreds of people in Zürich who have that sort of money burning holes in their bank accounts. If you have the right idea (and a track record and good experience) it will be easy to find them.

[...]

Be careful how much equity you give away and be sure to have a good contract highlighting how much influence investors can have or pressure they can put on you.
Very well meaning comment I'm sure, but please don't take a small amount of money (relatively speaking) like this from somebody you don't know who isn't an experienced investor (and ideally an industry expert). If you really have no other choice, then at least make sure to arrange the funding as a convertible note and not a direct cash-for-equity agreement.

Remember - it's much, much easier to get rid of employees, customers, partners and spouses than investors
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Old 07.06.2017, 15:14
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

Thank you, will look into the websites and get in touch with some of you.

As I mentioned I am ideally looking for just one or maximum two investors rather than lots of investors investing a small amount.

Investment required is not huge, in the range of 150-200 000 and I have funds of about 60-70 000 to add to that.
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Old 07.06.2017, 15:24
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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Thank you, will look into the websites and get in touch with some of you.

As I mentioned I am ideally looking for just one or maximum two investors rather than lots of investors investing a small amount.

Investment required is not huge, in the range of 150-200 000 and I have funds of about 60-70 000 to add to that.
Realistically your going to only going to be a minority shareholder, ultimately the investor has full control.
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Old 07.06.2017, 15:30
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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Realistically your going to only going to be a minority shareholder, ultimately the investor has full control.
I am only willing to give out a certain amount of equity for the amount required and I have numbers to back everything.
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Old 07.06.2017, 15:42
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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I am only willing to give out a certain amount of equity for the amount required and I have numbers to back everything.
Your only investing about 25%, why would you be entitled to much more equity?
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Old 07.06.2017, 15:55
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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Your only investing about 25%, why would you be entitled to much more equity?
Well it is my idea and work, why would I give that away to someone for a few hundred thousand when I know it's worth much more than that...

I'm sure you know that if I'm asking for 200 000 chf for x % equity, I have obviously valued the company according to that and have numbers to back it.
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Old 07.06.2017, 17:35
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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Well it is my idea and work, why would I give that away to someone for a few hundred thousand when I know it's worth much more than that...

I'm sure you know that if I'm asking for 200 000 chf for x % equity, I have obviously valued the company according to that and have numbers to back it.
Unless the business is already profitable, you wont be able to do that. It's a start up & your only putting up about 25% of the risk capital.
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Old 07.06.2017, 18:00
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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Unless the business is already profitable, you wont be able to do that. It's a start up & your only putting up about 25% of the risk capital.
I've been around quite a few of these deals and that's not how startup investing at seed level normally works. Sure, if you have a more traditional business (such as a pub or beauty salon, for example) then the investor can't expect the value to grow exponentially, so you wouldn't be far off base with your original calculations (+ any IP, brand and domain knowledge the founder can bring with them and quantify).

For a real startup, however, it is possible to have nothing but a proven team, interest from potential customers and an interesting idea, and to walk away with XXXk CHF in funding for 10-20% of the company without injecting any capital yourself.

No comment as to whether that's a good idea (for either party) though
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Old 07.06.2017, 18:19
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

I suggest you watch some episodes of "Dragon's Den" on YouTube to watch. That'll give you a better idea of how much equity you may have to give away for the money you're looking for. It amazes me that after upteen series people still go in there asking for sums like £75,000 for 3% of the business or £150,000 for 5%.
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Old 07.06.2017, 18:22
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

If you want to combine lending money with drinking beer, and make 4.5% p.a.

http://www.theinternational.ch/crowdlending-campaign/

Disclaimers apply. Alcohol is bad for you. the Internet is full of crooks. 4.5% is not a a lot of money. A pigeon might shit on your head. And bla bla etc. Amen.

But apart from that, sounds like a fun idea, no?

EDIT: the crowdfunding website suggest they may in fcat be offering 15%

https://www.3circlefunding.ch/social-lending

Last edited by amogles; 07.06.2017 at 18:38.
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Old 07.06.2017, 18:29
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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I suggest you watch some episodes of "Dragon's Den" on YouTube to watch. That'll give you a better idea of how much equity you may have to give away for the money you're looking for. It amazes me that after upteen series people still go in there asking for sums like £75,000 for 3% of the business or £150,000 for 5%.
I think your response assumes I'm a bit stupid. I know how much equity I want to give away for the investment I need, and as I mentioned above I have numbers to back this up.

I'm not asking for advice on how much equity to give away or how to value my business/business idea, especially as I haven't even discussed my idea here.

I was just hoping for suggestions on how to best find/approach investors in Switzerland.
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Old 07.06.2017, 18:48
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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I suggest you watch some episodes of "Dragon's Den" on YouTube to watch. That'll give you a better idea of how much equity you may have to give away for the money you're looking for. It amazes me that after upteen series people still go in there asking for sums like £75,000 for 3% of the business or £150,000 for 5%.
They end up selling 45% for the £150k as the business has only made a 75k profit to date, even through the owner has spent £250k to date.
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Old 07.06.2017, 18:49
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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I think your response assumes I'm a bit stupid. I know how much equity I want to give away for the investment I need, and as I mentioned above I have numbers to back this up.

I'm not asking for advice on how much equity to give away or how to value my business/business idea, especially as I haven't even discussed my idea here.

I was just hoping for suggestions on how to best find/approach investors in Switzerland.
What you want to give away and what you might have to give away, may not be the same figure, and without funding, the idea won't get off the ground....
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Old 07.06.2017, 18:52
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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I suggest you watch some episodes of "Dragon's Den" on YouTube to watch. That'll give you a better idea of how much equity you may have to give away for the money you're looking for. It amazes me that after upteen series people still go in there asking for sums like £75,000 for 3% of the business or £150,000 for 5%.
Dragon's Den is to real-life investing what The Apprentice is to real-life hiring processes.

If you want to learn about raising investor money, the only realistic portrayal I have seen is the second series of The Pitch podcast.

The numbers you mentioned as examples are by no means crazy valuations, they just aren't a big enough % for most investors (due to dilution/loss of control in further liquidity events).
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Old 07.06.2017, 19:18
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Re: Best way to find investment in Zurich/Switzerland

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What you want to give away and what you might have to give away, may not be the same figure, and without funding, the idea won't get off the ground....
Absolutely and I am of course willing to discuss and negotiate. I am how ever not desperate and I believe in my idea so I am not willing to take any deal/investment if it means compromising my position in the business.
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