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Old 07.09.2017, 10:42
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Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

Since the world and his dog knows I'm unemployed, I've been offered one or two small very-part-time gigs on a cash-in-hand basis (tutoring, shifting furniture, that kind of thing). We're talking something like one hour, maximum two hours a week.

I'd like to be honest and above board about it, but I'm not sure how to complete the "zwischenarbeit" form from the RAV. After all, I'm not technically employed by my friends - even if they're prepared to pay me - nor am I technically self-employed. The form works on the presumption that I'd be a proper employee with a proper company, not just someone helping out friends for a bit of cash.

Has anyone else encountered this situation? How do I satisfy the RAV's requirements without getting my friends into a mess of situation as my presumed "employers"?

Any clues?
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Old 07.09.2017, 10:47
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

I have a former colleague who has been through the entire RAV period without finding permanent/full-time work.
She has occasionally done sales/promotional work, selling cigarettes in bars in the evenings.
She told me that she informed neither RAV nor the tax office of these earnings, as they are cash-in-hand and so low that it changes almost nothing.

About 10 or 11 years ago I myself was on unemployment benefit for just over a year.
I taught English in schools - this was naturally declared to RAV and for taxes as I was employed part-time.
I gave English lessons privately - this was never declared to RAV, nor for taxes.
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Old 07.09.2017, 10:51
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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I have a former colleague who has been through the entire RAV period without finding permanent/full-time work.
She has occasionally done sales/promotional work, selling cigarettes in bars in the evenings.
She told me that she informed neither RAV nor the tax office of these earnings, as they are cash-in-hand and so low that it changes almost nothing.

About 10 or 11 years ago I myself was on unemployment benefit for just over a year.
I taught English in schools - this was naturally declared to RAV and for taxes as I was employed part-time.
I gave English lessons privately - this was never declared to RAV, nor for taxes.
Exactly.
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Old 07.09.2017, 10:52
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

Nah. Working black is not an option for me.

I'd rather turn down offers of casual work than get into that game.
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Old 07.09.2017, 10:53
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Since the world and his dog knows I'm unemployed, I've been offered one or two small very-part-time gigs on a cash-in-hand basis (tutoring, shifting furniture, that kind of thing). We're talking something like one hour, maximum two hours a week.

I'd like to be honest and above board about it, but I'm not sure how to complete the "zwischenarbeit" form from the RAV. After all, I'm not technically employed by my friends - even if they're prepared to pay me - nor am I technically self-employed. The form works on the presumption that I'd be a proper employee with a proper company, not just someone helping out friends for a bit of cash.

Has anyone else encountered this situation? How do I satisfy the RAV's requirements without getting my friends into a mess of situation as my presumed "employers"?

Any clues?
Someone far more knowledgeable than me will be along in a bit but I'm fairly sure that you can do odd hours work here and there and it doesn't qualify for any of the usual stoppages. There's a max number of hours you have to work before you have to pay AHV, etc.

A couple of hours tutoring for 100.- or so is prob ok but, as I said, someone on here probably knows the right linky to look at.

Plus declaring it at the RAV as income works in your favour as you can maximise your monthly payments.
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Old 07.09.2017, 10:59
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Nah. Working black is not an option for me.

I'd rather turn down offers of casual work than get into that game.
You can declare the earnings on your tax form without having to be registered as self employed or pay AVS contributions as long as you keep below the maximum allowed per year so you wouldn't have to work on the black.

Whether you have to declare this to RAV and whether it would affect your benefits I have no idea about.
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Old 07.09.2017, 11:14
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Since the world and his dog knows I'm unemployed, I've been offered one or two small very-part-time gigs on a cash-in-hand basis (tutoring, shifting furniture, that kind of thing). We're talking something like one hour, maximum two hours a week.

I'd like to be honest and above board about it, but I'm not sure how to complete the "zwischenarbeit" form from the RAV. After all, I'm not technically employed by my friends - even if they're prepared to pay me - nor am I technically self-employed. The form works on the presumption that I'd be a proper employee with a proper company, not just someone helping out friends for a bit of cash.

Has anyone else encountered this situation? How do I satisfy the RAV's requirements without getting my friends into a mess of situation as my presumed "employers"?

Any clues?
To be honest if it's not financially significant then I don't think it's such a moral dilemma and I wouldn't even mention it to the RAV as potentially (even if it's a very slim chance) it could cause you much more bother than it is worth and do you really want to jeapordise RAV payments when you have a family? If it's really your friends that you are doing odd and irregular jobs for then you could easily say that they loaned you the money.

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You can declare the earnings on your tax form without having to be registered as self employed or pay AVS contributions as long as you keep below the maximum allowed per year so you wouldn't have to work on the black.

Whether you have to declare this to RAV and whether it would affect your benefits I have no idea about.
I'm guessing declaring this on your tax forms as BM suggests, and not telling RAV, is the best answer.
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Old 07.09.2017, 11:15
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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You can declare the earnings on your tax form without having to be registered as self employed or pay AVS contributions as long as you keep below the maximum allowed per year
Correct. And even if you do go over the maximum allowed per year, which I did about 15 years ago, you simply receive an invoice for the pension contributions. This invoice can arrive even years afterwards, in my case it arrived after more than 4 years had passed.
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Old 07.09.2017, 11:16
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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You can declare the earnings on your tax form without having to be registered as self employed or pay AVS contributions as long as you keep below the maximum allowed per year so you wouldn't have to work on the black.

Whether you have to declare this to RAV and whether it would affect your benefits I have no idea about.
Isn't this like the money one earns from "hobbies"?

RAV, i know nothing about.
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Old 07.09.2017, 11:18
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

A FAQ at the Startups.ch website addresses this question for purposes of RAV (translated):

"What is interim self-employment?

A temporary interim service is understood to be a temporary, short-term and low-investment activity which can be stopped at any time in favor of suitable employment.

This self-employment must be reported using the (RAV) interim employment form, since this is not an AHV-registered self-employment. It is not determined by the unemployment fund (Kasse) whether the activity is really independent in the sense of the AHV. This is the responsibility of the insured person.

In self-employed interim employment, there is no intention that it be long-term, and self-employment is not the goal. Therefore, the search is not central but the activity is rather a response to a customer request."

https://www.startups.ch/de/blog/was-...chenverdienst/
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Old 07.09.2017, 11:26
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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A FAQ at the Startups.ch website addresses this question for purposes of RAV (translated):

"What is interim self-employment?

A temporary interim service is understood to be a temporary, short-term and low-investment activity which can be stopped at any time in favor of suitable employment.

This self-employment must be reported using the (RAV) interim employment form, since this is not an AHV-registered self-employment. It is not determined by the unemployment fund (Kasse) whether the activity is really independent in the sense of the AHV. This is the responsibility of the insured person.

In self-employed interim employment, there is no intention that it be long-term, and self-employment is not the goal. Therefore, the search is not central but the activity is rather a response to a customer request."

https://www.startups.ch/de/blog/was-...chenverdienst/
Brilliant, thank you for that!
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Old 07.09.2017, 12:00
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Since the world and his dog knows I'm unemployed, I've been offered one or two small very-part-time gigs on a cash-in-hand basis (tutoring, shifting furniture, that kind of thing). We're talking something like one hour, maximum two hours a week.

I'd like to be honest and above board about it, but I'm not sure how to complete the "zwischenarbeit" form from the RAV. After all, I'm not technically employed by my friends - even if they're prepared to pay me - nor am I technically self-employed. The form works on the presumption that I'd be a proper employee with a proper company, not just someone helping out friends for a bit of cash.

Has anyone else encountered this situation? How do I satisfy the RAV's requirements without getting my friends into a mess of situation as my presumed "employers"?

Any clues?
Dead easy to be part time self employed whilst unemployed, they count 80% of your earnings after legitimate expenses.

Any problems with paperwork send me a PM.

Below about 2100 no AVS to pay, however be warned min payment seems to be 475 CHF .
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Old 07.09.2017, 14:11
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Below about 2100 no AVS to pay, however be warned min payment seems to be 475 CHF .
It may have gone up since your figure and I believe it can even go down.
As far as I know, minimum payment is now CHF 501.40 per annum, billed quarterly (if they know about you) at CHF 125.35. Otherwise it will accumulate and one larger bill will eventually arrive.
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Old 07.09.2017, 14:37
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Dead easy to be part time self employed whilst unemployed, they count 80% of your earnings after legitimate expenses.

Any problems with paperwork send me a PM.

Below about 2100 no AVS to pay, however be warned min payment seems to be 475 CHF .
Isn't that the the minimum contribution for the year to be counted by AHV (478.- btw)? If so, due to previous employment and RAV payments that threshold has been surpassed/fulfilled months ago.
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Old 07.09.2017, 15:26
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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478.- btw
478 but plus management costs = CHF 501.40
Die Ausgleichskassen erheben zusätzlich Verwaltungskostenbeiträge
von maximal 5 % der Beiträge. Costs may vary, so amount you pay also may vary.
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Old 07.09.2017, 16:36
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Isn't that the the minimum contribution for the year to be counted by AHV (478.- btw)? If so, due to previous employment and RAV payments that threshold has been surpassed/fulfilled months ago.
If only that was true, The second year I declared self employed earnings on my tax return above 3k this time, the tax office asked for confirmation from the AVS office. I work was for 4 days & received an additional bill of 475 CHF.
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Old 09.09.2017, 10:00
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Since the world and his dog knows I'm unemployed, I've been offered one or two small very-part-time gigs on a cash-in-hand basis (tutoring, shifting furniture, that kind of thing). We're talking something like one hour, maximum two hours a week.

I'd like to be honest and above board about it, but I'm not sure how to complete the "zwischenarbeit" form from the RAV. After all, I'm not technically employed by my friends - even if they're prepared to pay me - nor am I technically self-employed. The form works on the presumption that I'd be a proper employee with a proper company, not just someone helping out friends for a bit of cash.

Has anyone else encountered this situation? How do I satisfy the RAV's requirements without getting my friends into a mess of situation as my presumed "employers"?

Any clues?
Just finished my two years with RAV. I declared a "Zwischenverdienst" tutoring through a company. For my sanity the work was great -financially, hardly worth it -most was deducted from the benefit; it added days to my entitlement that were then practically useless as they ran over the time limit. Complications arose when the I earned over CHF 600 a month due to who should pay child allowance -we got more child allowance totally unemployed (Kanton Zug) than when earning small sums for a company registered in Basel!
Cash in the hand for small tasks should not be a problem, declaration is a private matter - just the social control here is high and RAV beneficiaries are easily dobbed in for real or imaginary crimes- you could work for free/expenses only. Unfortunately my experience has been that total honesty with RAV is not always the best (moral?) policy
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Old 09.09.2017, 10:40
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

What qualifications do you hold DB?
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Old 09.09.2017, 20:49
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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What qualifications do you hold DB?
Bachelor degree, Post Grad Cert in education and a TEFL qualification.

I can send you more detailed information by PM if you like.
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Old 09.09.2017, 21:05
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Re: Cash in hand, casual labour on the RAV

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Any clues?
Black is your friend.

Tom
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