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Old 03.10.2017, 17:06
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Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

an acquaintance (Mr X) in the uk has a company that has just launched a project, a swiss guy has a weird vendetta against Mr X, and various other people Mr X knows (Mr Y), for no apparent reason, they have never even met.

Anyway this swiss guy (who lives here) has registered a .uk website (a copy of .com site owned by a Mr Y) and basically slandered the hell out of Mr X, Mr Y, and both their companies, all the images etc have been lifted from Mr X's company site, Swiss guy has also included all these guys home addresses and phone number.

Mr X and Mr Y and both deeply unhappy and want to take things further, what should be the first steps, baring in mind they are in the UK, and swiss guy is here.
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Old 03.10.2017, 17:10
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

Get a lawyer in Switzerland and start up a case to seek reimbursement of damage and to take those websites down, and to prevent this guy from stalking again.

And have a local lawyer since the correct legal path has to be chosen to avoid failure of the proces.
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Old 03.10.2017, 17:18
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

Check the domain's whois info and report them to the URL/Host provider (unauthorized content / copyright infringement/abuse).

Also have Mr. X put on the original site a declaration of copyright terms
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Old 03.10.2017, 17:21
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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Check the domain's whois info and report them to the URL/Host provider (unauthorized content copyright infringement/abuse).
that side of things has already been done, they want to go legal on this guy as he is trying his hardest to damage their companies, slagging them off all over the internet, outright lies, really bizarre stuff
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Old 03.10.2017, 17:27
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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Mr X and Mr Y and both deeply unhappy and want to take things further, what should be the first steps, baring in mind they are in the UK, and swiss guy is here.
I have not been involved in this kind of thing in years, but assuming that the .com business was established first, get legal advice in the UK to have the register transfer the domain to the owner of the .com site. It is a fairly common exercise for commercial solicitors in protecting corporate identity, so it should not be too expensive.
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Old 03.10.2017, 17:28
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

How do you know that he is Swiss?

Tom
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Old 03.10.2017, 17:29
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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I have not been involved in this kind of thing in years, but assuming that the .com business was established first, get legal advice in the UK to have the register transfer the domain to the owner of the .com site. It is a fairly common exercise for commercial solicitors in protecting corporate identity, so it should not be too expensive.
Yes, I once did this with someone who tried to squat on a similar domain name in the UK. Only took a few days to resolve.
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Old 03.10.2017, 17:34
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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How do you know that he is Swiss?

Tom
he loves attention and self publicity, he basically stalked them on facebook for a while, got blocked from all the groups they where members of then created copies of the groups (same headers, pics etc) and slightly changed the names, and slagged them off - his behavior is very 'odd', he seems to think that as he is here he can say and do anything to them and they won't be able to touch him.

the nominet entry is also in his name with his address, its been going on for a while but everyone just wrote him off as a nutter, but he's crossed the line now.
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Old 03.10.2017, 18:09
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

How come the pictures on Mr X's company website (the originals it seems) were taken off? Copyright issues? And who did?
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Old 03.10.2017, 18:13
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

Cheapest in the long run would be to hire some Kosovo heavies to tell the guy to cease and... Ah well, just cease!
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Old 03.10.2017, 18:15
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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How come the pictures on Mr X's company website (the originals it seems) were taken off? Copyright issues? And who did?
He's cloned Mr X's site using a .co.uk version of Mr Y's company site, changed the text to slag them off.

Not sure if the swiss guy did the deed or paid someone to do it, its all been done in his name though, and he was proud enough of it to start posting up the links to it.

Mr X's company of course owns the copyright, Mr X is no fool, he's has various companies all with online presence, so getting this fake site taken down isn't the issue, they want to silence this fool once and for all, be that suing or legal (police)
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Old 04.10.2017, 10:10
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

Copyright laws, the equivalents of laws against "üble Nachrede" (slander) and "unlauterer Wettbewerb" (certainly the UK company can argue it incurred financial damage, a loss in profits) come to mind. Call on the UK courts, then take this to the Swiss authorities and get them to enforce them. This looks like a civil matter so the police probably can't help.

One way, if it can be proven, is to use lost profits as this can easily be five or six figures. The potential fines for all the other stuff probably pale in comparison, but proving the damage probably is difficult. No idea if something like punitive damages exist in the UK, and if they would be enforced in Switzerland.

Another, and perhaps more promising, route is to simply charge him for the actual cost and efforts taken to counter his actions (be generous of course). If he doesn't pay, MrX can use a shady company like Intrum Justitia to collect the money. MrX may see little of the actual amount due but that seems of little concern at this point (perhaps Mr X wants to split the cost items into separate invoices to increase the hassle for the Swiss guy).

Alternatively MrX could raise a Betreibung directly to have the Swiss guy pay but that requires a Swiss representative.
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Old 04.10.2017, 10:46
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

so can anyone recommend a good lawyer in this kind of thing down Geneva way?
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Old 04.10.2017, 12:24
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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Copyright laws, the equivalents of laws against "üble Nachrede" (slander) and "unlauterer Wettbewerb" (certainly the UK company can argue it incurred financial damage, a loss in profits) come to mind. Call on the UK courts, then take this to the Swiss authorities and get them to enforce them. This looks like a civil matter so the police probably can't help.

One way, if it can be proven, is to use lost profits as this can easily be five or six figures. The potential fines for all the other stuff probably pale in comparison, but proving the damage probably is difficult. No idea if something like punitive damages exist in the UK, and if they would be enforced in Switzerland.

Another, and perhaps more promising, route is to simply charge him for the actual cost and efforts taken to counter his actions (be generous of course). If he doesn't pay, MrX can use a shady company like Intrum Justitia to collect the money. MrX may see little of the actual amount due but that seems of little concern at this point (perhaps Mr X wants to split the cost items into separate invoices to increase the hassle for the Swiss guy).

Alternatively MrX could raise a Betreibung directly to have the Swiss guy pay but that requires a Swiss representative.
It's libel, rather than slander. To pursue a libel case through the High Court will incur a minimum of £100,000 in legal fees & a very good chance the other side won't be able to pay even if you win. Juries are somewhat unreliable, you can never be sure of anything.
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Old 04.10.2017, 12:30
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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It's libel, rather than slander. To pursue a libel case through the High Court will incur a minimum of £100,000 in legal fees & a very good chance the other side won't be able to pay even if you win. Juries are somewhat unreliable, you can never be sure of anything.
the other side can pay seems he is some kind of bored trust fund mummies boy (in his 30's)
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Old 04.10.2017, 12:36
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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the other side can pay seems he is some kind of bored trust fund mummies boy (in his 30's)
Money in a trust is not his, UK bankruptcy is a doddle. His parents wealth is irrelevant.

Also no guarantee you will win, if you loose then you have to pay the other sides costs also min £100,000
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Old 04.10.2017, 12:52
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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Well, that's debatable... and the point of the thread.

As I see it:
- the guy is Swiss
- the website he set up is a UK one
- the hosting company could be wherever.

If I wanted to go legal on a person would I do so where it hurts the most. AFAIK is this the US where piracy laws are so far out they are silly. So if you are lucky and the hosting company is godaddy or something similarly American might you be in luck.

I'd get a lawyer familiar with IT law in several jurisdictions. I guess that the US or UK laws will bite way more than Swiss laws against a Swiss citizen in an international case.
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Old 04.10.2017, 14:44
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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Well, that's debatable... and the point of the thread.

As I see it:
- the guy is Swiss
- the website he set up is a UK one
- the hosting company could be wherever.

If I wanted to go legal on a person would I do so where it hurts the most. AFAIK is this the US where piracy laws are so far out they are silly. So if you are lucky and the hosting company is godaddy or something similarly American might you be in luck.

I'd get a lawyer familiar with IT law in several jurisdictions. I guess that the US or UK laws will bite way more than Swiss laws against a Swiss citizen in an international case.
OP wants more then just take the site down. He wants a Swiss guy to change his behaviour based on legal restriction.
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Old 04.10.2017, 14:48
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

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OP wants more then just take the site down. He wants a Swiss guy to change his behaviour based on legal restriction.
correct, and its not me Mr X only asked me about it as he knows I live here and wanted to know what the score is with this kind of thing. He was going to send a UK solicitors letter to the guy, but I don't think that will work
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Old 04.10.2017, 15:53
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Re: Legal Issue with Swiss man creating fake website

Depending on the type of content that is being posted (and on the assumption that the Swiss guy is acting from Switzerland) you could
(i) file a criminal complaint; and/or
(ii) file civil claims
at his place of residence in Switzerland.

Depending on the type of content, you may have a short deadline (3 months) to file the criminal complaint.

Doing something similar for a client at the moment. Will send you a PM with contact details.
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