Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Business & entrepreneur  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15.07.2008, 10:20
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,078
Groaned at 129 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 579 Times in 303 Posts
markalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputation
Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Question,
Have been gainfully employed for some years in Switzerland. Will soon be signing on to claim unemployment insurance.
Worked in IT field and was insured to the maximum ie. 10'500 a month.
Will recieved 80% of that since I have a family for the next 400 days it seems or 8400 a month (gross).
Considering becoming self employed, although not keen on destroying this safety net that I have paid into.
Any thoughts/advice anybody can give?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15.07.2008, 12:31
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

You can suppliment your unemployment with any extra hours you work without declaring yourself as unemployed. Unemployment will pay you the difference and those hours will keep "filling the pot" (so to speak). There is a form they give you for this. This is a good way to try out your new venture.

You do need to still "look" for a job and have any meeting the unemployment person requests.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15.07.2008, 12:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,078
Groaned at 129 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 579 Times in 303 Posts
markalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputation
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Ok,

But dont they not add the money back into the "pot" and your effective cover will be reduced if you have earned less money then the monthly amount you had been insured for. I would need to earn around 525 a day if my calculations are correct?

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15.07.2008, 13:07
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
Ok,

But dont they not add the money back into the "pot" and your effective cover will be reduced if you have earned less money then the monthly amount you had been insured for. I would need to earn around 525 a day if my calculations are correct?

Mark
Humm... I'm not sure I understand your question.

You will get less than your monthly payment because your "extra earnings" are subtracted from your allowance. Basically you can't really make more than the max allowance.

But, when you work 1 day that day is not paid out of your 525 allowance. So, effectively that extra day can be paid out later on.

Since you fill out a form for your "extra earnings", they take out social contributions on that amount (taken from the amount they pay you). So you are paying back into the unemployment. Meaning you are earning & contributing at the same time. Thus you can be on unemployment longer while building up your clients.

I hope that makes sense.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16.07.2008, 16:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
Ok,

But dont they not add the money back into the "pot" and your effective cover will be reduced if you have earned less money then the monthly amount you had been insured for. I would need to earn around 525 a day if my calculations are correct?

Mark
Yes not well described but yes.

In effect when you work while unemployed you pay social contributions on your earnings and your available number of days unemployed reduces less slowly, you could say increases by the number of days you have worked- but it is not correct it extends the length of possible unemployment by said number of worked days. The paying of the unemployment benefit is anyway not a personal pot thing. You are here paying into a shared pot and thus any payments made while working and unemployed is just "offsetting" your contributions and paying for someone else who might also be less fortunate...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22.07.2008, 14:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
PaulF has no particular reputation at present
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Hi,
that's still not answering his question.

His question is:
'If I become self employed having started my own business' - how do I protect my chomage? (so how does he still claim benefits as a business owner?)

This is a good question because on the surface the two are mutually exclusive, you're either self employed in which case there is no chomage or your an employee - in which case there is.

Can anyone offer any clarity on this point?

Thanks,
Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22.07.2008, 19:59
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,971
Groaned at 101 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 9,106 Times in 4,522 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
Yes not well described but yes.

In effect when you work while unemployed you pay social contributions on your earnings and your available number of days unemployed reduces less slowly, you could say increases by the number of days you have worked- but it is not correct it extends the length of possible unemployment by said number of worked days. The paying of the unemployment benefit is anyway not a personal pot thing. You are here paying into a shared pot and thus any payments made while working and unemployed is just "offsetting" your contributions and paying for someone else who might also be less fortunate...
Yes, you are right, 'filling the pot' is really a good metaphor. What I was trying to say is that if you are working then you are contributing again to your unemployment eligiblity. If you are not working during your chomage, then you must work again the required number of months.

If that makes more sense. (Probably not! ) I did not mean fill the pot with money. I should stop trying to be literary as clearly I will never be a novelist.

Quote:
View Post
Hi,
that's still not answering his question.

His question is:
'If I become self employed having started my own business' - how do I protect my chomage? (so how does he still claim benefits as a business owner?)

This is a good question because on the surface the two are mutually exclusive, you're either self employed in which case there is no chomage or your an employee - in which case there is.

Can anyone offer any clarity on this point?

Thanks,
Paul.
You are right, he can not start his own business and collect unemployment, but he can work as an independent contractor. He must fill out the supplementary (or complimentary) work form. This must be signed by the company his is working for. I did this.

If he declares he is starting a company, they will give him three months unemployment and wish him luck.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22.07.2008, 20:13
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

There are two constraints on unemployment benefits:
  • The number of compensated days
  • The maximum elapsed "frame" period.
Consequence: If you have some earnings while unemployed, then you may complete the frame period without exhausting the benefit days.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23.07.2008, 09:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
Hi,
that's still not answering his question.

His question is:
'If I become self employed having started my own business' - how do I protect my chomage? (so how does he still claim benefits as a business owner?)

This is a good question because on the surface the two are mutually exclusive, you're either self employed in which case there is no chomage or your an employee - in which case there is.

Can anyone offer any clarity on this point?

Thanks,
Paul.
I think you actually answer your own question here. If you are self-employed or the sole owner of a GmbH you exclude yourself from future unemployement benefit (granted the latter is only temporarily but...).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23.07.2008, 10:03
jbrady's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sunny Aargau
Posts: 1,044
Groaned at 13 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 719 Times in 359 Posts
jbrady has a reputation beyond reputejbrady has a reputation beyond reputejbrady has a reputation beyond reputejbrady has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

My wife (46) was forcibly made to cut down to 60 % (from 100 percent) in January this year. (All the women over 45 were forced to do this)

She has being unsuccessfully trying to find a 30/40 percent job since then, but has been receiving approx. 30 percent of her salary from RAV in Brugg (Unemployment insurance). Together with her 60 percent, this is almost the same as full time working without the 13th month bonus.

Is my thinking correct, that in about another year, this insurance contribution will stop? - or does it continue for longer as she is not taking 100 percent?

I guess that she would be better trying to get off the benefits system ASAP and keep it for whenever she is 100 percent unemployed.

On a positive side, her company has said that they may put her up to 80 percent next month - in which case she would immediately stop claiming benefits and look for a one days worth job (baby sitting, cleaning etc.)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 23.07.2008, 16:14
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
My wife (46) was forcibly made to cut down to 60 % (from 100 percent) in January this year. (All the women over 45 were forced to do this)

She has being unsuccessfully trying to find a 30/40 percent job since then, but has been receiving approx. 30 percent of her salary from RAV in Brugg (Unemployment insurance). Together with her 60 percent, this is almost the same as full time working without the 13th month bonus.

Is my thinking correct, that in about another year, this insurance contribution will stop? - or does it continue for longer as she is not taking 100 percent?

I guess that she would be better trying to get off the benefits system ASAP and keep it for whenever she is 100 percent unemployed.

On a positive side, her company has said that they may put her up to 80 percent next month - in which case she would immediately stop claiming benefits and look for a one days worth job (baby sitting, cleaning etc.)
Take a look at the sheet that the unemployment insurance sends her every month. It will clearly show
  1. Her original entitlement for unemployment benefits.
  2. Number of benefit days used and number remaining.
  3. Deadline of the frame period after which no benefits are available.
  4. Number of holidays, i.e. unemployment benefits without being present and actively seeking employment.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Goldtop for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 24.07.2008, 09:00
PC_Advisor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

One thing I did not see posted was:
If you do not actively show that you are seeking work (Fribourg, Vaud rule???) your payment claim may be closed and the money stops.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24.07.2008, 09:31
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
One thing I did not see posted was:
If you do not actively show that you are seeking work (Fribourg, Vaud rule???) your payment claim may be closed and the money stops.
True everywhere in Switzerland! Job seeking efforts verified as follows:
  • Summoned to the Regional Employment Center (known as RAV in German speaking Switzerland) every 4 to 6 weeks for an interview.
  • Must submit detailed list to RAV, at the end of every month, with details of job applications and the result.
  • Monthly claim form to the insurer with details of any other income, illness, absences, etc.
Moreover, the RAV can insist that the candidate must accept a job, even in another profession, at a lower pay or up to 2 hours (each way!) commuting distance.

Those who anticipate becoming unemployed (perhaps because they have received a termination notice) should immediately start looking for a job. All efforts should be meticulously documented. Makes a good impression, if you can show the RAV officer, at the first interview, that you are really serious. Worst case, the RAV can postpone the benefits, particularly when you voluntarily resigned.
__________________
Caveat lector!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02.10.2008, 21:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lugano
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Kevin has no particular reputation at present
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Specifially referring to the original question , whether you will get unemployment benefits, while starting your own business

To the best of my knowledge :

- if you form a S.A - (am not sure what is called in German, but i think AG) ,yes, you can apply for unemployement because shareholders details are confidential, however min. capital is CHF 100,000

- if you form a SARL, then your name as a partner will be public knowledge, and you will not be allowed any unemployment benefit(because as far as i know, they do check). In case of SARL (GmBH), min capital is CHF 20,000. However, in case you show yourself a minority partner with about 10-20% shareholding, you might have a chance. Another possibility is to nominate an external company as the majority partner(they charge about CHF 1500 per year for this service) and you show yourself as a dependent.

hope this helps,
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03.10.2008, 08:18
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
Specifially referring to the original question , whether you will get unemployment benefits, while starting your own business

To the best of my knowledge :

- if you form a S.A - (am not sure what is called in German, but i think AG) ,yes, you can apply for unemployement because shareholders details are confidential, however min. capital is CHF 100,000

- if you form a SARL, then your name as a partner will be public knowledge, and you will not be allowed any unemployment benefit(because as far as i know, they do check). In case of SARL (GmBH), min capital is CHF 20,000. However, in case you show yourself a minority partner with about 10-20% shareholding, you might have a chance. Another possibility is to nominate an external company as the majority partner(they charge about CHF 1500 per year for this service) and you show yourself as a dependent.

hope this helps,
The above suggestions may not work! The authorities are smart and aware of these work-arounds.

Eligibility for unemployment benefits may be refused when the applicant, or relative, is connected to the former employer as:
  • Shareholder in a private company
  • Manager or director of the former employer
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03.10.2008, 10:03
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,745
Groaned at 75 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 2,649 Times in 1,194 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

I do believe however that there is a transition period if you are unemployed and decide to start your own company. With prior agreement from the RAV I believe it is possible to get unemployment for 3 month during the time you start your business.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03.10.2008, 10:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
I do believe however that there is a transition period if you are unemployed and decide to start your own company. With prior agreement from the RAV I believe it is possible to get unemployment for 3 month during the time you start your business.
Yes possible it is, easy it is not. The requirements here are that you have an approved business case and feasibility check. And that you wait something like 2 months before you can start. Oh and depending on your prior experience you might need to go on a running a business course...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03.10.2008, 13:21
Goldtop's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,844
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 905 Times in 625 Posts
Goldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond reputeGoldtop has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Quote:
View Post
I do believe however that there is a transition period if you are unemployed and decide to start your own company. With prior agreement from the RAV I believe it is possible to get unemployment for 3 month during the time you start your business.
The RAV (Regional Employment Agency) are quite happy to help you start your own business. You get some coaching and other assistance. After that you are on your own and can no longer claim unemployment benefits. So that is good from the RAV perspective. Otherwise they may have to pay benefits for months and years.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18.09.2009, 14:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,078
Groaned at 129 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 579 Times in 303 Posts
markalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputationmarkalex has an excellent reputation
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Yes,
More then a year past since I posted this and still looking/thinking about self employment. Any idea if you can "try" out a business idea for say six months, and then sign back in if it simply doesn't work?

Is the system such that once you leave unless you have been employed for 2 years you cannot return?
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 20.11.2009, 15:26
LVL LVL is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fehraltorf
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
LVL has no particular reputation at present
Re: Starting new business without throwing away unemployment insurance

Hi Markalex,

I think your post was launched a while ago, but I just joined. I am in the same situation. I have taken a 4 month sabbatical (was due back in Jan 2010) as after 10 years with my company I needed a break. Now, a recent conversation last week with my boss informed me that our positions will be moved over the next year to Romania. I have been working for 9 years here in Zurich for the corporate giant and I think now is the time to jump off the ship and build my own boat.. instead of running around the decks hiding and being miserable in my job. I have hinted to my boss that I would like to participate in the work force reduction plan but now I am concerned about the RAV and unemployment discussion. I definitely would like to take advantage of the RAV as I build my business up, but when do you have to register your company? I heard that 90 days is the grace that RAV gives you, then you are on your own. 90 days is not a long time to build up a business considering it takes at least 1 full year (if you are lucky) to turn a profit. Just wanted to know what you did, how things are going and any tips you can give me.

Thanks! LVL
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting a business in Switzerland. krlock3 Business & entrepreneur 276 15.11.2016 08:45
Unemployment insurance question Rico Insurance 9 26.02.2012 21:25
Starting a business in Switzerland pinkbike Business & entrepreneur 9 30.11.2010 10:29
Starting a website driven business in Switzerland Heath Business & entrepreneur 14 20.05.2008 15:00
Unemployment insurance Tuck Employment 3 16.10.2007 14:50


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0