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Old 10.11.2018, 22:11
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Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

Hi,

Currently UK based and a UK citizen. Have a UK company but will close that soon.

I'm looking to change my country of residence and move to Switzerland as it would be a good location from which to operate from, for a new contract with an EU (but non-swiss) based consultancy company.

Somewhere around Zurich or Zug is currently under consideration. Zurich seems to be a good transport hub for EMEA travel..

The new contract would involve lots of travelling for very short term (e.g.1 to 4 weeks) assignments in different locations around Europe & the Middle East. It is possible some of those assignments could be in Switzerland but it would be a small subset if so as it is an EMEA wide role. There could/would be weeks where no-assignment was necessary or wanted by me and so no income received for those periods.

I was thinking of creating a local Swiss GMBH once resident and then using that to operate through. I would initially be the only employee and the contract would then be between my Swiss GMBH and the non-swiss consultancy company.
  • Is there any reason this would not be allowed ?
  • Can a Swiss company have a contract with a non-swiss company ( im guessing yes ) ?
In the UK when I created my last contracting/consulting company my accounts setup the company for me and I pay them a fee to deal with all the payroll, VAT, tax calculations etc. They also provide an online accounting system for entering my invoices and expenses etc.
  • Are there Swiss accountants that specialise in doing similar ?

Regards


Kt.
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Old 11.11.2018, 19:05
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

No idea. But welcome to the Forum anyway.
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Old 11.11.2018, 19:13
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

I suggest you pay a lawyer or a fiduciare for an hour of their time and get a straight answer directly.


Canton can make a difference, set up can make a difference, for Chf 400.--/hour it's worth getting right as if you get it wrong or don't understand something, it will cost you far far more.....
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Old 12.11.2018, 08:29
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

https://www.ch.ch/en/becoming-self-employed/

https://www.kmu.admin.ch/kmu/en/home...s-eu-efta.html

You'll need CHF20,000 to set up a GmbH here.
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Old 12.11.2018, 08:31
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract


...of which about Chf 17'500-17'000 comes back after couple of weeks
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Old 13.11.2018, 20:18
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I suggest you pay a lawyer or a fiduciare for an hour of their time and get a straight answer directly.


Canton can make a difference, set up can make a difference, for Chf 400.--/hour it's worth getting right as if you get it wrong or don't understand something, it will cost you far far more.....
Thank you. I understand what you mean by a lawyer but not what you mean by fiduciare? In English it translates to "fiduciary" but I am failing to see how its English translation relates to my questions so clearly I misunderstand.

Can you elaborate?

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...of which about Chf 17'500-17'000 comes back after couple of weeks
Thank you. That sounds interesting. Why is that ? I had read somewhere that the 20k is put in to a blocked account and held in case of undesirable outcomes of the business.

Thank you for the links. I had read something to that effect and that's not an issue.

I was more concerned about whether not doing work tasks for my Swiss GMBH in Switzerland ( ie servicing customers all over Europe by going in person for periods of 1 to 4 weeks ) would in some way affect my ability to:

a) get a B (is it for EU nationals) permit and
b) open a GMBH to operate through.

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Thank you for the links. I had read something to that effect and that's not an issue.

I was more concerned about whether not doing work tasks for my Swiss GMBH in Switzerland ( ie servicing customers all over Europe by going in person for periods of 1 to 4 weeks ) would in some way affect my ability to:

a) get a B (is it for EU nationals) permit and
b) open a GMBH to operate through.
Essentially I'd likely only make use of my residential address in Switzerland at weekends and any weeks that I happened not to have any customers to service. While visiting customers I'd be using hotels near the different customers offices.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 13.11.2018 at 23:55. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 14.11.2018, 02:04
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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a) get a B (is it for EU nationals) permit and
It may do, there are economic sustainability rules for EU citizens as well. Also a one man company not grounded in the Swiss economy may be a consideration. Get proper legal advice.
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Old 14.11.2018, 04:52
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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Thank you. That sounds interesting. Why is that ? I had read somewhere that the 20k is put in to a blocked account and held in case of undesirable outcomes of the business.

It's put into a blocked account for the 2 or 3 weeks it takes to start the company, then it's yours to use to run the business - including paying yourself a salary if you like.
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Old 14.11.2018, 09:48
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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Thank you. I understand what you mean by a lawyer but not what you mean by fiduciare? In English it translates to "fiduciary" but I am failing to see how its English translation relates to my questions so clearly I misunderstand.

Can you elaborate?


An accountant



Thank you. That sounds interesting. Why is that ? I had read somewhere that the 20k is put in to a blocked account and held in case of undesirable outcomes of the business.

This is exactly why you need professional guidance as you evidently know nothing about Swiss company law !

Thank you for the links. I had read something to that effect and that's not an issue.

I was more concerned about whether not doing work tasks for my Swiss GMBH in Switzerland ( ie servicing customers all over Europe by going in person for periods of 1 to 4 weeks ) would in some way affect my ability to:

a) get a B (is it for EU nationals) permit and
b) open a GMBH to operate through.


Essentially I'd likely only make use of my residential address in Switzerland at weekends and any weeks that I happened not to have any customers to service. While visiting customers I'd be using hotels near the different customers offices.

Maybe difficult using Switzerland as a "hotel only" they don't like people setting up companies for no real benefit and taking advantage of the laws here. It's considered as taking the piss a bit too much


I suggest you have your accounts audited and prepared by a local accountant/fidiciary as it saves a lot of pain later on with the tax people.
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Old 14.11.2018, 19:28
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

I am actually looking for an accountant ( ideally one that provides similar sorts of services for contractors as JSA does for me in the UK - helps with company formation, payroll, vat and keeping me legal )

Regarding this:

"Maybe difficult using Switzerland as a "hotel only" they don't like people setting up companies for no real benefit and taking advantage of the laws here. It's considered as taking the piss a bit too much"

Wouldn't the benefit to Switzerland be that they would be getting the taxes from my payroll, any social security payments and of course any corporation tax and vat due from my Swiss GMBH along with whatever I spend in to the local economy as well as paying for professional services ( like accountants etc ) ?

My longer term plan is to remain resident, with a view in the future to perhaps qualify for more than just residency and also to setup a project of my own and hire local people ( but that last part will take time as I need to get the financial backing for it but its on the roadmap for me ).

The last part of my original message was asking if anyone new of accountants that provide the sorts of services I would need - including appropriate GMBH formation advice etc. ?
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Old 14.11.2018, 19:53
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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I am actually looking for an accountant ( ideally one that provides similar sorts of services for contractors as JSA does for me in the UK - helps with company formation, payroll, vat and keeping me legal )

Regarding this:

"Maybe difficult using Switzerland as a "hotel only" they don't like people setting up companies for no real benefit and taking advantage of the laws here. It's considered as taking the piss a bit too much"

Wouldn't the benefit to Switzerland be that they would be getting the taxes from my payroll, any social security payments and of course any corporation tax and vat due from my Swiss GMBH along with whatever I spend in to the local economy as well as paying for professional services ( like accountants etc ) ?

My longer term plan is to remain resident, with a view in the future to perhaps qualify for more than just residency and also to setup a project of my own and hire local people ( but that last part will take time as I need to get the financial backing for it but its on the roadmap for me ).

The last part of my original message was asking if anyone new of accountants that provide the sorts of services I would need - including appropriate GMBH formation advice etc. ?

So the Swiss get a bit of tax from you, yet have to worry a whole lot about money laundering etc.....


They really are not interested in your one man band, either you conform and are resident here, properly or you don't open a company



By the way, last piece of free advice, you need at least one Swiss resident domiciled in Switzerland to act as a director, with the associated responsibilities for your company.
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Old 14.11.2018, 20:21
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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So the Swiss get a bit of tax from you, yet have to worry a whole lot about money laundering etc.....


They really are not interested in your one man band, either you conform and are resident here, properly or you don't open a company



By the way, last piece of free advice, you need at least one Swiss resident domiciled in Switzerland to act as a director, with the associated responsibilities for your company.
Well that would be me. In the OP I said I plan to move to Switzerland (ie establish a home there - renting initially) and be resident. Jan/Feb next year I intend to move. I have an initial contract that will allow me to establish myself there but that work involves lots of travelling but parallel to that I also have a very large project of my own I want to get off the ground however that requires funds I don't currently have and until such time as I do the contracting work can be used to sustain me in the interim.

Of course I need professional advice. What I was hoping for was recommendations of the names of accountancy or legal advisors I could approach ?
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Old 14.11.2018, 20:24
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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Well that would be me. In the OP I said I plan to move to Switzerland (ie establish a home there - renting initially) and be resident. Jan/Feb next year I intend to move. I have an initial contract that will allow me to establish myself there but that work involves lots of travelling but parallel to that I also have a very large project of my own I want to get off the ground however that requires funds I don't currently have and until such time as I do the contracting work can be used to sustain me in the interim.

Of course I need professional advice. What I was hoping for was recommendations of the names of accountancy or legal advisors I could approach ?



Which canton you going to live in, here is a federation, each canton has different rules ad regulations......
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Old 14.11.2018, 20:51
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

From the research I have done so far Zurich would be a good location from a transport hub perspective for the interim contracting work but Zug with its "cryptovalley" would be a good location for my own project (given the nature of the project and the access to local talent in ZH & Zug).

So, initially, my residence might be in Zurich but I still might create my GMBH in Zug ( with a view to later moving to Zug once the funds for my project materialise. )
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Old 16.11.2018, 03:39
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

groan? why? I don't understand?
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Old 16.11.2018, 12:01
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

ok well as it appears you don't have anything else but groaning to contribute after I answered your question about which canton etc I shall thank you for your assistance thus far and attempt to locate recommendations for professional advisors elsewhere.

Thank you.
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Old 17.11.2018, 00:58
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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Hi,

Currently UK based and a UK citizen. Have a UK company but will close that soon.

I'm looking to change my country of residence and move to Switzerland as it would be a good location from which to operate from, for a new contract with an EU (but non-swiss) based consultancy company.

Somewhere around Zurich or Zug is currently under consideration. Zurich seems to be a good transport hub for EMEA travel..

The new contract would involve lots of travelling for very short term (e.g.1 to 4 weeks) assignments in different locations around Europe & the Middle East. It is possible some of those assignments could be in Switzerland but it would be a small subset if so as it is an EMEA wide role. There could/would be weeks where no-assignment was necessary or wanted by me and so no income received for those periods.

I was thinking of creating a local Swiss GMBH once resident and then using that to operate through. I would initially be the only employee and the contract would then be between my Swiss GMBH and the non-swiss consultancy company.
  • Is there any reason this would not be allowed ?
  • Can a Swiss company have a contract with a non-swiss company ( im guessing yes ) ?
In the UK when I created my last contracting/consulting company my accounts setup the company for me and I pay them a fee to deal with all the payroll, VAT, tax calculations etc. They also provide an online accounting system for entering my invoices and expenses etc.
  • Are there Swiss accountants that specialise in doing similar ?

Regards


Kt.
Yes, it's allowed. Yes a Swiss GmbH can have contracts with non-Swiss companies.

To my knowledge, there are no "contractor accountants". You'll need a local accountant in Zurich, or Zug. To set up the company, you'll need to talk to a lawyer, who will probably be able to recommend a notary.

Payroll you can do yourself, or have your accountant do it. It's really very simple - my accountant just told me the calculations I needed to do, and I set up a spreadsheet. He used to do the MWST (VAT), but we do it ourselves. Accountants will do the bookkeeping for you, but the more you do yourself, the cheaper it will be. We use Sage-50 for our accounts.

As an EU citizen, you'll be able to get a work/residency permit when your company is set up and you can show the authorities an employment contract.

First step - find a lawyer. Second step - find an accountant. Sorry, I have no recommendations for Zürich nor Zug.
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Old 17.11.2018, 03:06
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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Yes, it's allowed. Yes a Swiss GmbH can have contracts with non-Swiss companies.

To my knowledge, there are no "contractor accountants". You'll need a local accountant in Zurich, or Zug. To set up the company, you'll need to talk to a lawyer, who will probably be able to recommend a notary.

Payroll you can do yourself, or have your accountant do it. It's really very simple - my accountant just told me the calculations I needed to do, and I set up a spreadsheet. He used to do the MWST (VAT), but we do it ourselves. Accountants will do the bookkeeping for you, but the more you do yourself, the cheaper it will be. We use Sage-50 for our accounts.

As an EU citizen, you'll be able to get a work/residency permit when your company is set up and you can show the authorities an employment contract.

First step - find a lawyer. Second step - find an accountant. Sorry, I have no recommendations for Zürich nor Zug.
Thank you very much. Much appreciated. 😀
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Old 17.11.2018, 09:52
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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Thank you very much. Much appreciated. 😀

It is exactly what i told you in post 3, but you kept on and on......
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Old 17.11.2018, 10:30
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Re: Moving residence to CH, Creating GMBH, non-swiss contract

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It is exactly what i told you in post 3, but you kept on and on......
What I said included your comments, but hardly exact...
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