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  #181  
Old 23.01.2015, 19:01
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Re: How to set up your own company in CH

You may also think of setting up a business in an other country and create a branche office in Switzerland. The other country could for example be Luxembourg (S.A. which is anonymous) for tax benefits or Netherlands for not needing to put in the capital (Flex BV). UK ltd are I believe also very cheap and simple to set up (or buy). The downside may be that it is more complex and you have to file in both countries. You also need some support in the other country to be the trusted director. The upside is it opens an enormous potential of opportunities on the tax front.
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  #182  
Old 24.01.2015, 00:16
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Re: How to set up your own company in CH

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AFAIK, there is no way to anonymously own an official business in Switzerland.

Einzel/sole... it is in your name and must have your family name in the title.

GmbH... owners are listed in Handelsregister (business registry).

AG/SA... at least the board is listed in the Handelsregister. Share holders are not listed. So I guess share holders can be anonymous.

Can someone correct me here?

As for costs - my suggestion is always use your business accountant to set up the GmbH or AG/SA.
JC
This is my understanding as well... I guess most people don't realize that GmbH owners are listed in a public registry
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  #183  
Old 30.01.2015, 18:21
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Re: How to set up your own company in CH

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Far an SA(AG) you need to audit accounts, not so for a Srl (GmbH)

Setting up in a differnt canton and working in another opens up a whole new can of worms.


Thanks. If a business is very simple at the beginning as it is a start up so pretty much most of the outgoings are to pay a salary from AG's capital in the first year or two, how much does an AUDIT for AG SA cost and is it annual?


What kind of can of worms? If someone lives in one canton and company is set up in canton which is 15 minutes away by car from one's home?
I know there can be issues if someone lives in Zurich and wants to have a Zug company due to the distance.
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  #184  
Old 30.01.2015, 18:27
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

I have a question about all these obligatory contributions if one sets up AG SA and employes himself by AG and pays himslef a salary. If one wants to reduce the contributions to the ones that are obligatory.


Is BVG obligatory for AG SA to pay like AHV and is it 6% of salary? AHV is 10% of salary, so in total AG needs to pay 16% of employees' salary?? Can someone confirm this?


Also if one leases a car through AG and therefore has "benefits" (like a car, lunch allowance, hotel allowance, travel allowance) are these subject to personal income tax? There are lots of different benefits listed on the LOHNAUSWEIS salary annual form for AHV to calculate the size of year end salary. Do these benefits count for the total salary as far as AHV is concerned?


What if one gets a small salary but lots of these benefits and a promise of a future bonus on the basis of success of current projects?


What if one is to be paid a salary and a future bonus on the basis of revenues from current projects (e.g. there is a book/manual being written and the employee is to be paid future bonus on the basis of royalties received in the future from the sales of this book/manual for his contribtuions)? or on the basis of royalites from assets that one brings into other companies thorugh current marketing
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  #185  
Old 30.01.2015, 19:00
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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I have a question about all these ...
It looks like you have quite a bit of reading and learning ahead of you. Some of your questions may be answered by knowledgeable people here, but you really need to do some hardcore research. Mistakes in these kinds of things can be expensive.
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  #186  
Old 30.01.2015, 19:07
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Thanks. If a business is very simple at the beginning as it is a start up so pretty much most of the outgoings are to pay a salary from AG's capital in the first year or two, how much does an AUDIT for AG SA cost and is it annual?


What kind of can of worms? If someone lives in one canton and company is set up in canton which is 15 minutes away by car from one's home?
I know there can be issues if someone lives in Zurich and wants to have a Zug company due to the distance.
Go for an Srl (GmbH) mas no need for an audit. Simple accounts ? What about all your expenses, you are better off breaking even as if you make profit you pay tax. All your expneses can be deducted from the company thus reducing profit as you see fit

If you company is domiciled in one canton with office, it is here you pay company tax and you pay personel tax in canton where you live. Best to avoid if possible.....

As Jern says, mistakes can be expensive, go pay an accountant for an hour or so of his time to get yourself going. The questions you ask will lead on to other questions and you'll still be no further advanced here.

If your business is worth starting, do yourself the favour of affording professional advice

Last edited by 3Wishes; 30.01.2015 at 21:52. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #187  
Old 30.01.2015, 19:25
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Re: How to set up your own company in CH

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If you company is domiciled in one canton with office, it is here you pay company tax and you pay personel tax in canton where you live. Best to avoid if possible.....


Just to clarify, it is better to have personal residence and company in the same Canton? Why? If both Cantons have the same corporate and income taxes?
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  #188  
Old 30.01.2015, 21:09
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Re: How to set up your own company in CH

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Just to clarify, it is better to have personal residence and company in the same Canton? Why? If both Cantons have the same corporate and income taxes?

BECAUSE YOU HAVE 2 DIFFERENT TAX JURISDICTIONS TO DEAL WITH !!!

Go ask an accountant
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  #189  
Old 30.01.2015, 21:14
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

there is no problem in having an entity in an other Canton than you live in. It may even be beneficial as you can select the canton for your entity yourself and your wife will select the canton where you live...
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  #190  
Old 30.01.2015, 21:37
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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there is no problem in having an entity in an other Canton than you live in. It may even be beneficial as you can select the canton for your entity yourself and your wife will select the canton where you live...

When you are starting a business, you want as few as possible distractions and expenses, once you're up and going, it's different, but i'm sure you're right too
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  #191  
Old 30.01.2015, 22:12
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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When you are starting a business, you want as few as possible distractions and expenses, once you're up and going, it's different, but i'm sure you're right too
i agree that when you start you don't want too much complexity. the problem is that after a few years it starts to get difficult to reset your structures. moving an entity to another canton is not too difficult but you run into problems when you are in need of a holding as moving assets means taxation.

i would advise to think your structure through very carefully before you start. changing it later will cost you.
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  #192  
Old 31.01.2015, 00:12
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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As Jern says, mistakes can be expensive, go pay an accountant for an hour or so of his time to get yourself going. The questions you ask will lead on to other questions and you'll still be no further advanced here.

If your business is worth starting, do yourself the favour of affording professional advice
Hmm. It's also worth bearing in mind that some accountants, even the expensive ones, are as thick as pigshit, and will tell you all kinds of crap. If you really want to do it properly, you need to have a good grasp of the basics yourself.
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  #193  
Old 31.01.2015, 13:47
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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Hmm. It's also worth bearing in mind that some accountants, even the expensive ones, are as thick as pigshit, and will tell you all kinds of crap. If you really want to do it properly, you need to have a good grasp of the basics yourself.

I agree. Can I do my own accounting at the very beginning? What is the best way to find a good and cheap accountant? Can he also do the pay slips/AHV BVG payments/annual tax filing for the company? I think that professionals that are NOT based in big centers like Zurich or Zug but a little bit more outside are cheaper. In UK lawyers based OUTSIDE of London are usually a lot cheaper and just as good as the ones based in London
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Old 31.01.2015, 14:17
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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I agree. Can I do my own accounting at the very beginning? What is the best way to find a good and cheap accountant? Can he also do the pay slips/AHV BVG payments/annual tax filing for the company? I think that professionals that are NOT based in big centers like Zurich or Zug but a little bit more outside are cheaper. In UK lawyers based OUTSIDE of London are usually a lot cheaper and just as good as the ones based in London

If you do your accounts yourself, which you are prefectly entitled to, the tax authorities will certainly give your accountting a very close examination; if you have them done by a Swiss accountant, the tax authorities know it will basiclay be ok (probably) and give you a bit more rope.

It's worth paying for an accountant, believe me. Tax controls are long, time consuming and generaly expensive !

The very good lawyers are in gilded towers in central London or wherever, charge accordingly but uslay get the result yopu want. You get what you pay for.

I have no idea what you are doing but unless you have a turnover of at least $1mio from the word go, try to haver you business/residence in same canton, keep it simple and employ a local accountant. KPMG will charge you a fortune and probalby won't be as effective as a local accountant as for KPMG (or whoever) you are n ot really worth bothering with.

When you hit $2 mio profit (read profit) then begin thinking about holding structures, different cantons etc.

KEEP IT SIMPLE TO START WITH, therea re far more important things to take care of when you start.
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  #195  
Old 31.01.2015, 15:30
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not sure about the 1 mln threshold as you earn your money only once and every CHF you pay to the tax authorities is no longer yours. On the other hand if you have no clue about debit or credit leave it to the bookkeepers. It pays to learn a bit yourself as you will understand your business better and also are better able to mitigate some business risks.

fully agree on getting a local accountant (he needs to be in your canton) and go about your business. you can keep your books with invoices (receivables and payables) yourself of course as that will not be too difficult. You can also do your own VAT if your accountant shows you how to do the first one, you can do the rest.

KPMG has 25% of total revenue in Switzerland from Tax advise and is quite a international mature practice. KPMG is not suited for small business unless you lend out people and have administration on the payroll process.

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It's worth paying for an accountant, believe me. Tax controls are long, time consuming and generaly expensive !.
I have an audit coming up and do all the accounting myself. Should I be worried?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 31.01.2015 at 17:11. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #196  
Old 31.01.2015, 16:32
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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I have an audit coming up and do all the accounting myself. Should I be worried?
You could ask a qualified auditor (Revisor) to check your accounts. Should be quite a bit cheaper than an accountant (ie hundreds rather than thousands), and he or she will be able to advise you of any problems.
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  #197  
Old 31.01.2015, 17:06
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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not sure about the 1 mln threshold as you earn your money only once and every CHF you pay to the tax authorities is no longer yours. On the other hand if you have no clue about debit or credit leave it to the bookkeepers. It pays to learn a bit yourself as you will understand your business better and also are better able to mitigate some business risks.
What you save in tax you lose in dicking around and additional expenses, letterbox offices, etc etc which is why i said a profit of 2 mio, maybe at 1mio it's worth looking at various schemes, but anything worthwhile is expensive,

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I have an audit coming up and do all the accounting myself. Should I be worried?
They will look very closely at your acounting, that is for sure, especially if you are foreign as they may consider you to be a bigger risk not fully understanding Swiss law.

As Jern said maybe worth having the audited.

But by paying for this you could have paid the accountant to do everythnig and saved yoursef some time and headache.

Sure we can all do everythnig ourselves, but sometimes it's worth paying a professional rather trhan doing it ourselves, then having to pay somebody to check again....

It all depends a little on your business, your turnover and your abilities.
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Old 31.01.2015, 18:30
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Thanks for the advise. Did one of you ever experience an audit yourselves?

I am a Dutch licenced CPA (and want to get the Swiss license end of this year) and normally do know what I am talking about in accounting. I have however little experience in this country. When I first set up my business I did check with a local accountant to be sure to comply with the Swiss rules.

I will prepare as good as I possibly can as a professional. Will have to learn from the audit if there is some element I might have missed. it is an regular visit so no specific issue. will post my experience
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Old 31.01.2015, 18:46
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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Thanks for the advise. Did one of you ever experience an audit yourselves?
Only in the UK. My first Swiss audit is in two weeks' time.

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I did check with a local accountant to be sure to comply with the Swiss rules.
Should be fine then.

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I will post my experience
Likewise.
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Old 31.01.2015, 20:43
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Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

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Thanks for the advise. Did one of you ever experience an audit yourselves?

I am a Dutch licenced CPA (and want to get the Swiss license end of this year) and normally do know what I am talking about in accounting. I have however little experience in this country. When I first set up my business I did check with a local accountant to be sure to comply with the Swiss rules.

I will prepare as good as I possibly can as a professional. Will have to learn from the audit if there is some element I might have missed. it is an regular visit so no specific issue. will post my experience
The Swiss tax authorities, righhty or wrongly assume when they see a local accountant involved, who probably has connections, see's the tax people on a regular basis will look with a less eager eye that to somebody who is not Swiss.

Fine you're a Dutch CPA, diferent jusridiction, rules etc so they'll look more carefully at your accounts than if a Swiss accountant was filing.

Yes, i had 3 audits last year........TVA, tax and AVS, all was fine with minor discrepancies on TVA, Chf 5k, i think it was in total i paid.
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