Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Business & entrepreneur
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 31.01.2015, 22:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 810
Groaned at 11 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 361 Times in 251 Posts
Tinkiwinki has earned some respectTinkiwinki has earned some respect
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

I have the audit for salaries/AVS. The AVS is the tricky one as it is so specific and there is normally no room for interpretation. in the 5k you paid was there also a fine?

in the letter I received they say they are happy to advise if I may have questions. Sounds like a consult rather than audit..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tinkiwinki for this useful post:
  #202  
Old 03.02.2015, 15:52
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: zURICH
Posts: 194
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Jo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisance
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Does anybody here know about pre-GmBh and pre-AG? I read on a different thread here that it is possible to set up pre-Gmbh:

http://www.englishforum.ch/business-entrepreneur/9916-help-businesses-freelancers-ch.html

A company formally comes into existence once the statutes are written and not once the company is registered. It exists in a legal state called pre-GmBH at least in the German part of Switzerland. It can indeed trade in this state and fully function but it cannot have a VAT number.


The company exists once the founderes decide to take the step of forming the company. In its initial form a pre-GmbH it is a fully fledged company that is not formalised. As such it can perform in the same way as post formalization and can indeed trade.


  • How long can pre-GmBH trade in this state and fully function until it is forced to be registered?
  • Does this also apply to AG? i.e. can pre-AG trade in this state and fully function? How long?
  • Does this mean that in pre-GmBH format there is no requirement to register one Board Member and one “Signatory” in Commercial Register?
  • Are shareholders’ records in pre-GmBH public records?
Unfortunately, the person who created the thread has not been active here for 2 years ...
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 03.02.2015, 16:01
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,171
Groaned at 630 Times in 409 Posts
Thanked 6,039 Times in 2,895 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

JO, go pay for some professional advice, believe me, it will be money well spent. It may seem expensive but if you can't afford it, then maybe opening a company is not for you right now.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #204  
Old 03.02.2015, 16:19
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,569
Groaned at 96 Times in 87 Posts
Thanked 8,341 Times in 4,172 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

You don't set up a "pre" company. The company becomes a "pre" company after it has been registered but before the statutes have been written/filed. After that it is a full company.

I agree with Today Only on this. You seem to have many complicated questions that you really need to talk to a professional about. If you have the money to invest in setting up an SA, you should have the money to invest in talking to the appropriate professionals.

If saving a few thousand francs is really going to break the business then the business has bigger issues.

I'm currently considering setting up a sarl with 1000 less complications than you have and the first thing I'm doing is getting recommendations for the right professionals to talk to.


I might even offer TinkiWinki lunch to see what they are getting up to!
__________________
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #205  
Old 03.02.2015, 16:20
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,171
Groaned at 630 Times in 409 Posts
Thanked 6,039 Times in 2,895 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

I've just told you what to do, repeating your question by private mail, certainly does not enhance you chance of getting an answer.

GO PAY FOR PROFESIONAL ADVICE

That, my friend is the answer
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 03.02.2015, 16:24
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: zURICH
Posts: 194
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Jo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisance
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
You don't set up a "pre" company. The company becomes a "pre" company after it has been registered but before the statutes have been written/filed. After that it is a full company.

I agree with Today Only on this. You seem to have many complicated questions that you really need to talk to a professional about. If you have the money invest in setting up an SA, you should have the money to invest in talking to the appropriate professionals.

If saving a few thousand francs is really going to break the business then the business has bigger issues.

I'm currently considering setting up a sarl with 1000 less complications than you have and the first thing I'm doing is getting recommendations for the right professionals to talk to.


Thanks. From my experince I got better advice here on the forums then from expensive professional advisors. My experience has been that they tell you what are the options where they can make the biggest amount of money out of you ...
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Jo Flower for this post:
  #207  
Old 03.02.2015, 17:06
grumpygrapefruit's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zuriwest
Posts: 5,484
Groaned at 36 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 13,819 Times in 3,593 Posts
grumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
Thanks. From my experince I got better advice here on the forums then from expensive professional advisors. My experience has been that they tell you what are the options where they can make the biggest amount of money out of you ...
Jo. I'm a fairly experienced businessman and I've recently formed a new AG in Zürich. But even I did it by bringing a professional onboard. There's too many potential pitfalls by trying to do all these things yourself. Concentrate on what you are best at which is selling your product/service and leave all this complicated sh!t to those that really know what they are doing.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank grumpygrapefruit for this useful post:
  #208  
Old 03.02.2015, 17:56
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: zURICH
Posts: 194
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Jo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisance
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
If you have the money to invest in setting up an SA, you should have the money to invest in talking to the appropriate professionals.

I never wrote that I am setting up SA. Majority of my questions were about Gmbh.


I am merely elaborating on comments which someone (Richard) very experienced posted here a while ago. Unfortunately he has not been active on the forum for a while now. Here is an excellent thread set up by Richard:




http://www.englishforum.ch/business-entrepreneur/9916-help-businesses-freelancers-ch.html

Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 03.02.2015, 18:02
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: zURICH
Posts: 194
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Jo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisance
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
Jo. I'm a fairly experienced businessman and I've recently formed a new AG in Zürich. But even I did it by bringing a professional onboard. There's too many potential pitfalls by trying to do all these things yourself. Concentrate on what you are best at which is selling your product/service and leave all this complicated sh!t to those that really know what they are doing.


Thanks. My experince with lawyers/fiduciaries is that if one does not do the reasearch oneself, they will offer solutions that are the most beneficial for them in terms of costs, esp the Swiss. Years ago, i did this and I ended up with a massive legal bill for things that I would have easily got answers to here on the forum. what I like to do is the do my reasearch first, find the best cheapest solution and then go to the lawyer to finalise and in this way minimuse costs. I have been working with lawyers this way for years and I managed to reduce my fees substanially. If I just go to them and leave myslef at their mercy, I end up with a huge bill


I am planning to bring a professional at the end to set up the strucutre but I want to do my research first so that I am not at their mercy.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jo Flower for this useful post:
  #210  
Old 03.02.2015, 18:09
miniMia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: romandie
Posts: 9,569
Groaned at 96 Times in 87 Posts
Thanked 8,341 Times in 4,172 Posts
miniMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond reputeminiMia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
I never wrote that I am setting up SA. Majority of my questions were about Gmbh.


I am merely elaborating on comments which someone (Richard) very experienced posted here a while ago. Unfortunately he has not been active on the forum for a while now. Here is an excellent thread set up by Richard:




http://www.englishforum.ch/business-entrepreneur/9916-help-businesses-freelancers-ch.html


well I guess I miss read your other posts on this and other topics.
Starting a business in Switzerland.

Sadly Richard hasn't been around in a long time. I think he got tired of giving free advice.

If you listen to anyone, it should be GrumpyG. He's been there, done that and got a successful business to show for it.

and just to add, no one is suggesting you do NO research, but again your questions are very complex. We don't have details of what you want to accomplish. So there is only so much help you can get from a forum.

As I said, I'm studying my options as we. But the final details I'll seek professional help to confirm I'm heading in the right direction for my specific situation.
Good luck with your venture.
__________________
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank miniMia for this useful post:
  #211  
Old 03.02.2015, 19:14
Jern's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 907
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,091 Times in 470 Posts
Jern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
Thanks. My experince with lawyers/fiduciaries is that if one does not do the reasearch oneself, they will offer solutions that are the most beneficial for them in terms of costs, esp the Swiss. Years ago, i did this and I ended up with a massive legal bill for things that I would have easily got answers to here on the forum. what I like to do is the do my reasearch first, find the best cheapest solution and then go to the lawyer to finalise and in this way minimuse costs. I have been working with lawyers this way for years and I managed to reduce my fees substanially. If I just go to them and leave myslef at their mercy, I end up with a huge bill.
Similar experience here. I asked an (expensive) accountant something which he absolutely should have known, but clearly didn't. Instead, he made up a load of drivel and guesswork which was totally wrong and unhelpful. OK, he did correct himself later, but he had the cheek to invoice the time he spent "researching" the correct answer. As far as I'm concerned, you don't pay professionals to find out stuff. Otherwise the most ignorant accountants would be the most expensive.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Jern for this useful post:
  #212  
Old 03.02.2015, 19:28
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: zURICH
Posts: 194
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Jo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisance
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
Similar experience here. I asked an (expensive) accountant something which he absolutely should have known, but clearly didn't. Instead, he made up a load of drivel and guesswork which was totally wrong and unhelpful. OK, he did correct himself later, but he had the cheek to invoice the time he spent "researching" the correct answer. As far as I'm concerned, you don't pay professionals to find out stuff. Otherwise the most ignorant accountants would be the most expensive.


THANKS In fact I get better result than lawyers... most of the time I find better solutuins and used them to finalise my research/ideas if paperwork needs to be field ect. I am not trying to brag but often I found better solutions myself (with no cost other then my time) then lawyers. Friends of mine paid high fees for the same things I did myself and I got better results...


Also in business it is best to have a good understanding of all the legal aspects instead of calling a Zurich lawyer that charges CHF400 per hour all the time for advice ...
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 03.02.2015, 20:14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Valais
Posts: 88
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 73 Times in 36 Posts
Potrzebie has become a little unpopular
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

There are 91,300 hits on Google for "créer une enterprise en suisse" https://encrypted.google.com/search?...e+en+Suisse%22 -- There are 133,000 for "ein Unternehmen in der Schweiz" https://encrypted.google.com/search?...der+Schweiz%22

And there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of printed books and treatises on the subject. The union catalogue that includes the Swiss Institute of Comparative Law shows 1,501 (in all languages) under "société anonyme suisse"

Or you could go to a bookstore and probably find "Aktiengesellschaften und GmbH for Dummies". Well, something close to that anyway.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Potrzebie for this useful post:
  #214  
Old 05.02.2015, 21:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 810
Groaned at 11 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 361 Times in 251 Posts
Tinkiwinki has earned some respectTinkiwinki has earned some respect
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Forget about the pre-GmbH. You will be personal liable for all the pre-company does unless it becomes a real company and you confirm all agreements that you have taken on during the pre-phase. As said this is not a form but it gives the possibility to start dong business when you are in the process of founding the entity.

stop reading internet and go to the chamber of commerce

Quote:
View Post
Does anybody here know about pre-GmBh and pre-AG? I read on a different thread here that it is possible to set up pre-Gmbh:

http://www.englishforum.ch/business-entrepreneur/9916-help-businesses-freelancers-ch.html

A company formally comes into existence once the statutes are written and not once the company is registered. It exists in a legal state called pre-GmBH at least in the German part of Switzerland. It can indeed trade in this state and fully function but it cannot have a VAT number.


The company exists once the founderes decide to take the step of forming the company. In its initial form a pre-GmbH it is a fully fledged company that is not formalised. As such it can perform in the same way as post formalization and can indeed trade.


  • How long can pre-GmBH trade in this state and fully function until it is forced to be registered?
  • Does this also apply to AG? i.e. can pre-AG trade in this state and fully function? How long?
  • Does this mean that in pre-GmBH format there is no requirement to register one Board Member and one “Signatory” in Commercial Register?
  • Are shareholders’ records in pre-GmBH public records?
Unfortunately, the person who created the thread has not been active here for 2 years ...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tinkiwinki for this useful post:
  #215  
Old 05.02.2015, 21:26
Confloozed's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,794
Groaned at 136 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 4,931 Times in 2,341 Posts
Confloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond reputeConfloozed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
Forget about the pre-GmbH. You will be personal liable for all the pre-company does unless it becomes a real company and you confirm all agreements that you have taken on during the pre-phase. As said this is not a form but it gives the possibility to start dong business when you are in the process of founding the entity.

stop reading internet and go to the chamber of commerce
Oh the Chamber of Commerce?
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 05.02.2015, 21:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 810
Groaned at 11 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 361 Times in 251 Posts
Tinkiwinki has earned some respectTinkiwinki has earned some respect
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
I have the audit for salaries/AVS. The AVS is the tricky one as it is so specific and there is normally no room for interpretation. in the 5k you paid was there also a fine?

in the letter I received they say they are happy to advise if I may have questions. Sounds like a consult rather than audit..
I now had the audit and started a new thread about it (but do not know how to link it here). Was not too bad and actually quite helpful
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tinkiwinki for this useful post:
  #217  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:17
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: zURICH
Posts: 194
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Jo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisance
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Thanks Tinkiwinki.


Quote:
View Post
Forget about the pre-GmbH. You will be personal liable for all the pre-company does unless it becomes a real company and you confirm all agreements that you have taken on during the pre-phase. As said this is not a form but it gives the possibility to start dong business when you are in the process of founding the entity.

If someone is going to be an employee of Gmbh and they are assisting with set up of Gmbh, can their employment contract start from the date that they are working on the set up of Gmbh? That is if they start working on setting up Gmbh on March 1, 2015 and the Gmbh is formally established/registered on April 1, 2015 can they have been "employed" from March 1, 2015 for the purposes of social security AHV payments? i.e. can they have AHV social security contributions for month of March?


Also Richard wrote that the law only states minimum AHV social security contributions by the employer (50%). If an employee has AHV DEFICIT, can his employer pay more than 100% AHV social security contributions on his behalf to close the DEFICIT? Richard wrote that the law does not say anything about the maximum contributions by the employer


Quote:
View Post
go to the chamber of commerce

You mean commerical register?
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:17
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: zURICH
Posts: 194
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Jo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisanceJo Flower is considered a nuisance
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
I now had the audit and started a new thread about it (but do not know how to link it here). Was not too bad and actually quite helpful


What is the name of the thread?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Jo Flower for this post:
  #219  
Old 06.02.2015, 12:53
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,171
Groaned at 630 Times in 409 Posts
Thanked 6,039 Times in 2,895 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
What is the name of the thread?
It's called search Tinkiwinkis threads.
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 06.02.2015, 13:37
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy McModface
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 8,512
Groaned at 57 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 8,950 Times in 3,293 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Starting a business in Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
What is the name of the thread?
Experience with being audited by the Canton
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
ag akteingesellschaft, company, einzelfirma, gmbh, gmbh set up, legal, sa sociéteé anonyme, starting a business, work




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting a business in Switzerland pinkbike Business & entrepreneur 9 30.11.2010 11:29
Starting residential address for self-employed bongolu Business & entrepreneur 2 23.05.2008 04:25
Expanding marketing business to Switzerland - looking for interested parties schellmr Business & entrepreneur 4 25.01.2007 15:57
Starting to look around... MegSF Employment 0 07.01.2007 08:55
Lake Geneva is my starting off place Casca Introductions 2 31.12.2006 00:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0