Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Business & entrepreneur  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20.06.2010, 15:40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 54
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
ipsiety has no particular reputation at present
Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Hello fellow investors,

After much pain and hardwork I have zeroed on Interactive Brokers for making long terms investments in German/US stock exchanges. Nothing fancy, just plain stocks. I have a few questions before I take the plunge.

a) Seems at least a few people have tried interactive broker here, can someone tell me if it is a good brokerage firm, in terms of execution ?

b) When you get dividends from US/German stocks, how much is deducted as withholding tax ?

c) Would you recommend ib ?

To help people who might be considering investing, I will list a few brokerages who offer services in Switzerland and tell you why I chose not to use them.

UBS/Credit Suisse: They are in this for the money (surprise !). You pay a custody fee for them to keep your stock. This can be around 100 chf/year easily (even for small investors). Their brokerage is around 1% i.e. if you buy stock worth of 4000 chf on SIX (Swiss stock exchange) you pay 40 chf+(~3 chf, stamp duty). If you do it on the phone, you pay 80 chf + (~3 chf). You also pay while selling. So you are down 2% to begin with.

PostFinance: No custody fee. Moderate commissions compared to banks UBS/CS. More or less similar to Swissquote. For < 5000 chf you pay 25 chf, 5000-10000 chf you pay 35 chf and so on. If you want to stick with SIX then postfinance is highly recommended. Does its job quite well. The problem comes when you want to invest in say Germany/US exchanges. In this case you need to convert your chf to usd/eur. Their spread is around .04 wide. Which means that they will sell Eur for ~ 1.42 and buy it for ~ 1.38 (when the price is ~1.40). So if you want o convert 4000 chf, you loose 4000*0.02 = 80 chf. This is not ideal. Which brings me to:

Swissquote: Their spread is quite small. If eur is selling for 1.4238 chf then you will probably end up paying 1.4240, or maybe less. Pretty good. they have a similar commission as PostFinance although you can trade for <2000 chf and pay comparable commissions. PostFinance charges the same 25 chf for everything < 5000 chf, even say for 2000 chf (this means > 1%). So you would think Swissquote wins. But no. Swissquote has custody fee. Which means they charge you for keeping your stocks. Again between 12.5 chf - 25 chf /quarter. So, 50 chf-100 chf/year. This brings me to IB or interactive Brokers.

Interactive Brokers: One of the lowest costing brokerages around. Offers many markets to trade on (including the emerging markets such as India). Has slightly complicated rules for brokerages, but one can learn those. Have no custody fee. The only problem is that they ask you for 10$ commission/month i.e., you have to generate 10$/month for them by trading. Otherwise, you pay the difference. For example, if you traded once and paid a commission of 9$, you pay 1$ that month. If you do not trade for a year, then you pay 120$ for that year. It seems that this is like a custody fee, but if you are a small regular investor then you would be able to generate something like this.

I have so far tried PostFinance, UBS and Swissquote. So if you have questions, I will be happy to answer.

For people who are using IB, please add what you can.
Thanks,
-Ip
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20.06.2010, 15:52
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,110
Groaned at 345 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 11,628 Times in 4,010 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
b) When you get dividends from US/German stocks, how much is deducted as withholding tax ?
My understanding is that no withholding tax is deducted for foreign stocks. Though these should be declared on your annual tax return...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20.06.2010, 16:00
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
My understanding is that no withholding tax is deducted for foreign stocks. Though these should be declared on your annual tax return...
Not true. Withholding tax is often deducted on foreign stock. You have a right to claim this withheld tax back if there's a reciprocal tax agreement (there probably will be) because you're paying tax on the stock to Switzerland. However whether you will actually be able to claim the tax back depends on the broker and whether they can be bothered/have this facility. However you can just claim it as a credit on your tax return. Germany and France have the right to charge up to 15% WHT on stock dividends as an example.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29.06.2010, 13:50
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Posts: 160
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 49 Times in 39 Posts
jwalker46 is considered a nuisancejwalker46 is considered a nuisancejwalker46 is considered a nuisance
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I have a few questions before I take the plunge.
a) Seems at least a few people have tried interactive broker here, can someone tell me if it is a good brokerage firm, in terms of execution?
Yes, their execution is as good as any retail service, and far better than most.

Quote:
View Post
b) When you get dividends from US/German stocks, how much is deducted as withholding tax?
It depends on your nationality & your residence. If you are a US citizen, there is no withholding at all on US stock dividends. For Germany, it is a simple matter to go to IB's website, tell them your nationality & residence, and just ask.

Quote:
View Post
c) Would you recommend ib?
I've had an account for eight years, and am quite happy. Do understand, however, that IB is not a very user-friendly company, so queries are often answered with "go read the manual".
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29.06.2010, 13:57
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Berniejourney has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Have you tried Saxo Bank? - have not personally used them but understand that their fees are very low and have heard good things about reliability and user friendliness
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29.06.2010, 13:58
economisto
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Have you tried Saxo Bank? - have not personally used them but understand that their fees are very low and have heard good things about reliability and user friendliness
I've used them but didn't continue with them. Their fees aren't *great* but from a platform point of view, I've never seen better. It's quite frankly awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17.05.2011, 14:41
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 54
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
ipsiety has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

So, I have finally taken the plunge and opened an account with IB UK. The application is waiting for approval.

I have a question. Which way do you transfer funds to IB UK ? Is it a wire transfer or online bill payment ? The online bill payment is immediate but only shows USD. I would like to transfer funds in chf and not deal with the conversion issues.

Any help from the IB-veterans will be appreciated.

Regards,
-Ip
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24.11.2011, 13:48
MrJsD's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Luzern
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
MrJsD has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

The Forum members who provide answers have helped me many times. Thanks to all. I am delighted you asked a question I can answer.

I have used every feature of IB. My account at IB is based on my CH address.

For a deposit or withdrawal, You will do better by the use of whatever currency you have in your other account. Within IB, you can make the currency conversion yourself via the Forex Trading. You can select the best exchange rate for your gain. The value of the net remaining amount will be higher at IB than other Forex method. I have observed many times in doing the Forex at other institutions, result often in a net loss of value, apparently due to some undisclosed fee of the bank or broker.

The deposit procedure for IB is very specific. e.g. you cannot simply make a deposit, the "notification" is required or they reject your deposit! Details:

Notification to IB via website login Account Management Deposit Funds..
For your protection, we require you to submit a deposit notification in order to deposit the funds to your account. If you made multiple deposits, we will require a notification for each deposit. In order to complete a deposit notification you will need to follow the below instructions. You will need to visit our website: https://www.interactivebrokers.com/U...ntAccess.Login.

Account Management
Funds Management
Cash Transfers
Transaction: Deposit Cash
Wire
Detail Cash sent+ Currency+ bank+ bank account number.
Print the resulting messages. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact our Funds & Banking Department via Message Center or IB-Chat.



Further detail:
http://individuals.interactivebroker...ountmanagement


IB has more offerings of various securities, stocks, bonds, Forex, ETF, etc. than I have found at any other broker.


May you obtain the best gains possible.


James Dielschneider
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MrJsD for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 11.12.2012, 02:03
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,317
Groaned at 277 Times in 183 Posts
Thanked 17,733 Times in 7,486 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Hello fellow investors,

After much pain and hardwork I have zeroed on Interactive Brokers for making long terms investments in German/US stock exchanges. Nothing fancy, just plain stocks. I have a few questions before I take the plunge.

a) Seems at least a few people have tried interactive broker here, can someone tell me if it is a good brokerage firm, in terms of execution ?

b) When you get dividends from US/German stocks, how much is deducted as withholding tax ?

c) Would you recommend ib ?

To help people who might be considering investing, I will list a few brokerages who offer services in Switzerland and tell you why I chose not to use them.

UBS/Credit Suisse: They are in this for the money (surprise !). You pay a custody fee for them to keep your stock. This can be around 100 chf/year easily (even for small investors). Their brokerage is around 1% i.e. if you buy stock worth of 4000 chf on SIX (Swiss stock exchange) you pay 40 chf+(~3 chf, stamp duty). If you do it on the phone, you pay 80 chf + (~3 chf). You also pay while selling. So you are down 2% to begin with.

PostFinance: No custody fee. Moderate commissions compared to banks UBS/CS. More or less similar to Swissquote. For < 5000 chf you pay 25 chf, 5000-10000 chf you pay 35 chf and so on. If you want to stick with SIX then postfinance is highly recommended. Does its job quite well. The problem comes when you want to invest in say Germany/US exchanges. In this case you need to convert your chf to usd/eur. Their spread is around .04 wide. Which means that they will sell Eur for ~ 1.42 and buy it for ~ 1.38 (when the price is ~1.40). So if you want o convert 4000 chf, you loose 4000*0.02 = 80 chf. This is not ideal. Which brings me to:

Swissquote: Their spread is quite small. If eur is selling for 1.4238 chf then you will probably end up paying 1.4240, or maybe less. Pretty good. they have a similar commission as PostFinance although you can trade for <2000 chf and pay comparable commissions. PostFinance charges the same 25 chf for everything < 5000 chf, even say for 2000 chf (this means > 1%). So you would think Swissquote wins. But no. Swissquote has custody fee. Which means they charge you for keeping your stocks. Again between 12.5 chf - 25 chf /quarter. So, 50 chf-100 chf/year. This brings me to IB or interactive Brokers.

Interactive Brokers: One of the lowest costing brokerages around. Offers many markets to trade on (including the emerging markets such as India). Has slightly complicated rules for brokerages, but one can learn those. Have no custody fee. The only problem is that they ask you for 10$ commission/month i.e., you have to generate 10$/month for them by trading. Otherwise, you pay the difference. For example, if you traded once and paid a commission of 9$, you pay 1$ that month. If you do not trade for a year, then you pay 120$ for that year. It seems that this is like a custody fee, but if you are a small regular investor then you would be able to generate something like this.

I have so far tried PostFinance, UBS and Swissquote. So if you have questions, I will be happy to answer.

For people who are using IB, please add what you can.
Thanks,
-Ip
wanted to rep this post but ran out of greenies.

currently looking for a platform to do infrequent trades in US stocks (mainly buy and hold). wanted to avoid anything with custody fees as bleeding 1% each year isn't really the ideal environment to end up with a winning position. ability to contract for differences (to go 'short') would be nice.

PF may be suitable depending on how the FX spreads can be managed.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11.12.2012, 11:15
dino's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,663
Groaned at 31 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,279 Times in 628 Posts
dino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond reputedino has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

I have used IB, Saxo, TD Ameritrade and many others ... some as individual, others as a professional investor. IB is great for a professional, less useful for an individual. Saxo is good for private use, but Schwab and Ameritrade are easier to 'learn'.

Individual needs and tastes vary so much that the only way to really find out what works best for you is to try a few platforms yourself. Of course there is a cost involved - in time, money and effort.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22.12.2012, 22:11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
deuslovult has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

You can circumvent the minimum fee by opening an account via captrader.de .

One thing about the dividends: For a German citizen residing in Switzerland IB will use these rates for the withholding taxes: http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/down...olding_tax.pdf

Does anyone here know what happens to the tax withheld when filing the tax documents with the authorities? Will they take care of everything or does one have to fill in forms for every country one owns stocks from to get taxes back in excess of the 15% the countries seem entitled to? Does anybody know how the whole process works?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22.12.2012, 22:34
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,108
Groaned at 446 Times in 384 Posts
Thanked 18,660 Times in 9,873 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Credit Suisse had a good service but they closed it.
Then I switched to UBS but found them expensive
Now I use Post Finance.
Probably there are better US based brokers but I never got to realy closely investigating their costs & offers.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21.08.2013, 17:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Basel
Posts: 609
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 366 Times in 221 Posts
BaselPT is considered knowledgeableBaselPT is considered knowledgeableBaselPT is considered knowledgeable
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

I'm bumping this thread because I'm interested in the topic.

Interactive brokers seems extremely cheap for active traders, as in many (most) cases you will be paying a paltry 1 USD per order.
But it can get expensive for buy and hold trading due to the "minimimum activity" of 10 USD per month - and I don't count on doing 10 orders per month at all.

Anyone care to chime in on their opinions of better online brokers for a buy and hold investor looking to get into ETFs? So far Schwab and TD Ameritrade look promising, even though their rate for order is some 8x or more than the 1 USD per order of IB, that should not matter for buy and hold and compared to IB for each order, the difference will already be compensated after the first month of inactivity.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11.12.2014, 23:14
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Jura
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
domino65 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Hi ipsiety,

I am interested in opening an account at IB.
I have long hesitated between using a Swiss or a foreign broker.
I have finally chosen a Swiss broker but am already disappointed as they are not able to handle AUD, which they told me they could prior to opening the account.

So I am considering IB again but have still the same question that you asked in your first post
Quote:
View Post
b) When you get dividends from US/German stocks, how much is deducted as withholding tax ?
Could you please (or someone else who has the answer) share your experience on withholding tax from US, German or other stocks for a CH-resident.
How many tax was withheld for each of them and how much were you able to get back either via Swiss tax declaration or/and via foreign tax authorities.

Thank you very much for your help.
DR
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18.12.2014, 12:13
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,086
Groaned at 486 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

should you post stuff like that up, you've just admitted on an open forum you advised clients to break laws in multiple countries
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18.12.2014, 21:46
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Jura
Posts: 29
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
domino65 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Could you please tell me which law is supposed to be broken here ?

Each country has the right to withhold taxes on dividends paid by local companies but, as you are not resident of this country, you have the right to reclaim part of it. Plus you can deduct from your local tax bill, the part that you couldn't reclaim.
I just wanted to have the numbers from someone who has the experience.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04.02.2015, 11:03
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 87
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
dimli has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Hello,

I am referring to the previous post about IB and taxation in CH that was not answered.
As I am also interested on opening an account with IB could you please help by answering the question below?
Thanks

"Hi,

So how do you guys declare your IB transactions on the CH tax return? If you have even a low level of activity, up to 10 options trade a month, that would be 120 entries that have to be recorded in the DA-1(?) transaction pages of the tax return. That seems like another bit of work. Or do you simply decalre it upfront on Page 1 as another revenue source and just give the P from the anual P&L?

bill"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09.03.2015, 21:47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vaud
Posts: 30
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post
belgian beer lover has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

I am facing the same question: I'm with IB, and would like to declare taxes correctly. I don't have that many stocks, but given that I did buy gradually (small amounts frequently), and some stocks gave monthly dividends, that would be a loooong list to declare.

The dividends of my (mostly) US stocks were already taxed 15% at source.

How to declare this? Should I list everything?
Can't I somewhere just declare the total value of the stocks I have at 31.12.2014, declare how much dividends I received and how much dividend tax I paid?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24.01.2017, 23:02
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DE
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
mmcc has no particular reputation at present
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Hi, I've just setup a IB account and am trying to fund it with either CHF or USD from my bank in Switzerland. For CHF it seems the only option is Wire and although there are several other options on the dropdown menu for USD the chat support tells me that I need use wire from Switzerland for USD as well.
It isn't a knockout to use Wire but I prefer to use IBAN/SWIFT to transfer and understood from some earlier comments in this thread that cheaper transfer options than Wire were accepted.
Thanks for any insights to an unexpected speed bump in getting this setup.
Also I'd consider Schwab if this was easier as individual trading costs are not going to be very high for my current investment strategy.
M
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 24.01.2017, 23:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CH
Posts: 2,304
Groaned at 87 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 2,002 Times in 1,123 Posts
ivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond reputeivank has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Interactive brokers in Switzerland

Wire transfer *is* SWIFT. They'll give you IBAN to wire funds to and any swiss bank should be able to do the task. Not for free of course, as it's international and not SEPA. Cheapest I've been charged was 2 CHF per transfer.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading securities with Swiss brokers/ banks MikeUSA Business & entrepreneur 10 05.07.2009 10:11
Discount UK fund brokers for non-residents wategos Finance/banking/taxation 0 05.02.2009 22:58
Interactive advertising ... the latest trend Polorise General off-topic 0 15.07.2007 07:29
Getting BBC interactive on a FTA receiver Nickj TV/internet/telephone 6 12.04.2007 16:27
Regulatory bodies for Swiss brokers? AndrewD Business & entrepreneur 5 23.02.2007 12:24


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0