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View Poll Results: Have you got a business are interested in how to do things here or save (avoid) tax?
Would like to have a business but boy don't know where to start 163 39.76%
Am a contractor but my pimps are asking me to bend over and hold my ankles every month 27 6.59%
I am a freelancer doing it myself (so to speak) and want to know more 110 26.83%
I have my own legally structured company and don't like paying so much to everybody 51 12.44%
I am employed but am always interested in any way to reduce tax 52 12.68%
I think this is a waste of breath you oxygen thief 7 1.71%
Voters: 410. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 21.12.2007, 21:51
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

I read about the, in my view, very high notary cost in this thread. I have set up a couple of GmbH's and my total cost was around 800 CHF including HR registration for each. How to do it? You do the notarisation in Canton Zürich e.g. There are no problems to go to a notary in Zürich for a company with domicile in another canton. The HR registration of course has to be done in the canton of domicile but that is a fairly straight forward thing and cost doesn't vary to much between cantons (as opposed to notary costs that do).
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  #122  
Old 28.12.2007, 20:01
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

I screwed up my tax return slightly. An invoice of 7k that client payed on Feb 2007 I actually put on my 2006 tax return. Yes dumb of me! So basically my 2006 tax return is showing 7k more than I actually earned. I can live with that but what the hell do I do for the 2007 tax return? Should I not declare the 7k as I already declared it on my 2006 tax return?

Please advice. Gunter is a bad boy and needs to get more organized.
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  #123  
Old 31.12.2007, 10:46
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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I screwed up my tax return slightly. An invoice of 7k that client payed on Feb 2007 I actually put on my 2006 tax return. Yes dumb of me! So basically my 2006 tax return is showing 7k more than I actually earned. I can live with that but what the hell do I do for the 2007 tax return? Should I not declare the 7k as I already declared it on my 2006 tax return?

Please advice. Gunter is a bad boy and needs to get more organized.
Well this would depend on your status. If you are self employed, then just merrily carry on (and forget about it). If however you are a limited company then you better go and talk to your treuhand. Note here that is the invoice was for a service in 2006 then it actually belongs there irrespective of when it was paid... You just create an accrual for it in your books - but thats another story...
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  #124  
Old 02.01.2008, 19:51
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

Hello to all and happy 2008 :-)

I have printed out the threads regarding company creation and carefully re-read everything over the hols... so, now I feel I know much more

But...with knowldge come also questions...

1) Whilst we are in the process of setting up the legal aspect of he company, can we already operate as a pre-GMBH using our company name and get and pay inovices? (We have some urgencies to start asap)
2) Can we use our home adress for the invoices being sent to us whilst operating as a pre-GMBH? (we will not need to invoice ourselves whilst in this state)
3) The capital for paying invoices as a pre-GMBH will be our private capital, can we the "reimburse" ourselves once our company capital is liberated and also account for costs before offical creation date?


Thanks for help :-)
Cheers,
Cristina
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  #125  
Old 02.01.2008, 20:37
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

Hi all and a happy New Year.

A few questions as we approach our moving date to CH:

I'm employed by US company full time but not US citizen nor need pay US tax going forward. I'm non-EU but wife EU so assume EU-B not a problem. Wife not working initially so would like to obtain EU-B on my employment base in US.

Is declaring self-employed the simplest way to getting EU-B permit. Is that allowed even though I'm technically an employee of a US company?

Or is forming a Foreign Limited Liability a better option in terms of tax efficiency for myself?

Or would becoming sole trader be a sensible option, noting that I don't really trade in any real sense as I'm paid solely by the US based company.

I intent to form a more tax efficient company at a later date but not initially.

Thanks for any advice that anyone can provide!
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  #126  
Old 03.01.2008, 11:08
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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Hello to all and happy 2008 :-)

I have printed out the threads regarding company creation and carefully re-read everything over the hols... so, now I feel I know much more

But...with knowldge come also questions...

1) Whilst we are in the process of setting up the legal aspect of he company, can we already operate as a pre-GMBH using our company name and get and pay inovices? (We have some urgencies to start asap)
2) Can we use our home adress for the invoices being sent to us whilst operating as a pre-GMBH? (we will not need to invoice ourselves whilst in this state)
3) The capital for paying invoices as a pre-GMBH will be our private capital, can we the "reimburse" ourselves once our company capital is liberated and also account for costs before offical creation date?


Thanks for help :-)
Cheers,
Cristina
Here the answers you want...

1. The company exists once the founderes decide to take the step of forming the company. In its initial form a pre-GmbH it is a fully fledged company that is not formalised. As such it can perform in the same way as post formalization and can indeed trade...

2. You can use the address the company will have. If this is your home address then fine. If not you are on slightly dodgy territory as it will need to have a change in statutes to reflect the change. But lets just say, practically yes theoretically not so yes.

3. Okay this is then an accounting issue. I am not sure how much you understand about the way formal companies function but...
When you create your books you will create multiple different accounts or ledgers that will have entries posted to them. One of these entries would be directors account/shareholders account/private account call it what you like. Through this you are able to effectively lend money to the company or borrow from it without going through any formal process. So you could pay to this account CHF 5000 as an interest bearing loan and repay it once your account is freed. Note also here you should discuss this with your bank to ensure the monies are paid into the company account. Note the locked account (with the Stammkapital in) is not your company account. Your company account is currently waiting for the handelsregister entry whereby it will then unlock the locked account and the money will be paid into your company account minus the cost of the process (usually CHF 100-200).

Does that make any sense?!
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  #127  
Old 03.01.2008, 11:11
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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Hi all and a happy New Year.

A few questions as we approach our moving date to CH:

I'm employed by US company full time but not US citizen nor need pay US tax going forward. I'm non-EU but wife EU so assume EU-B not a problem. Wife not working initially so would like to obtain EU-B on my employment base in US.

Is declaring self-employed the simplest way to getting EU-B permit. Is that allowed even though I'm technically an employee of a US company?

Or is forming a Foreign Limited Liability a better option in terms of tax efficiency for myself?

Or would becoming sole trader be a sensible option, noting that I don't really trade in any real sense as I'm paid solely by the US based company.

I intent to form a more tax efficient company at a later date but not initially.

Thanks for any advice that anyone can provide!
Okay maybe I am stupid... I have read your post twice and cannot quite grasp what you are intending to do. Forget about the permit issue for now. As long as you have some form of viable employment you will get a permit. Seeing as your wife is EU and assuming she comes with you then you automatically inherit her status.

So what is it you are actually wanting to do? Take it as given you can come here...
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  #128  
Old 03.01.2008, 12:58
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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Okay maybe I am stupid... I have read your post twice and cannot quite grasp what you are intending to do. Forget about the permit issue for now. As long as you have some form of viable employment you will get a permit. Seeing as your wife is EU and assuming she comes with you then you automatically inherit her status.

So what is it you are actually wanting to do? Take it as given you can come here...
If my understanding is correct, since Mr. WorldTraveller's wife is not working at the moment, Mr. WorldTraveller would like an EU-B permit on the basis of his contract with the US company rather than on the basis of his wife taking employment here.
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  #129  
Old 03.01.2008, 15:02
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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If my understanding is correct, since Mr. WorldTraveller's wife is not working at the moment, Mr. WorldTraveller would like an EU-B permit on the basis of his contract with the US company rather than on the basis of his wife taking employment here.
Well as long as she comes along and as long as the US company has a base here from which he will be employed then there is no problem. Is that really what he wants? How come he could not say that, or did he just I did not see it. I guess I should go back to bed
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  #130  
Old 03.01.2008, 15:11
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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Well as long as she comes along and as long as the US company has a base here from which he will be employed then there is no problem. Is that really what he wants? How come he could not say that, or did he just I did not see it. I guess I should go back to bed
Well he did say that the ladywife won't work for the moment, so I sort of extrapolated the rest... then again I'm posting from a very resting and comfy couch
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  #131  
Old 03.01.2008, 20:08
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

Hi Shorrick and Richard,

Sorry I didn't make my situation clear.

Yes, I'm trying to come to Switzerland and I have employment and EU wife will come along. It's just that the company that employs me is US based and does not have a presence in Switzerland. Hence, my question was what is the easiest way for me to show that I have employment so I can then use that as a basis to get an EU-B permit.

Since the company does not have a presence in Switzerland, do I declare myself self-employed (which I can do easily without objection by the company in US) or form a company of sorts so I can establish as having a means of supporting myself in Switzerland to get the EU-B permit?

Sorry if I'm still clear as mud. Feedback much appreciated.
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  #132  
Old 03.01.2008, 20:52
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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Hi Shorrick and Richard,

Sorry I didn't make my situation clear.

Yes, I'm trying to come to Switzerland and I have employment and EU wife will come along. It's just that the company that employs me is US based and does not have a presence in Switzerland. Hence, my question was what is the easiest way for me to show that I have employment so I can then use that as a basis to get an EU-B permit.

Since the company does not have a presence in Switzerland, do I declare myself self-employed (which I can do easily without objection by the company in US) or form a company of sorts so I can establish as having a means of supporting myself in Switzerland to get the EU-B permit?

Sorry if I'm still clear as mud. Feedback much appreciated.
I think I see what you want. I also think the options are somewhat limited. The easiest way I see it working is that your wife sets up a company with you - that's the residence taken care of. Then that company can invoice the US 'employer'.
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  #133  
Old 03.01.2008, 21:19
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Re: new Jan 1 GmbH rules

I would like to discuss the new changes for GmbH as of Jan 1. Have the changes come in as discussed below ? I am a bit concerned about the need to have a formal accounting firm that reviews and then sends a huge bill. Is this necessary ?
----------------

It will change though with the new "Juristische Person" law to be introduced Jan 1st, so it is not such bad advice to start with 20K. At this point indeed all new GmbH must be 20K and must have a formal revisionstelle ie accountancy firm that checks the books and signs off on them and sends a bill for 10K! There are also other changes such as being able to set up a GmbH as a single person and not requiring two people.
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  #134  
Old 03.01.2008, 21:21
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

Setup cost = 10K.....can you clarify ?
-------------------
And to demonstrate this I too was involved in a GmbH in Zürich in July and this was 50% liberated cost was 10K. Admittedly it will go to 100K in due course but the setup cost was 10K...[/quote]
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  #135  
Old 03.01.2008, 22:28
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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I think I see what you want. I also think the options are somewhat limited. The easiest way I see it working is that your wife sets up a company with you - that's the residence taken care of. Then that company can invoice the US 'employer'.
Yes that was last years model but as of Jan 1st you only need one person to set-up a GmbH and that would of course be your wife - for social security reasons. You would simply be an employee running the company.

The model as suggested by Swissbob is by far the best solution for you, for a multitude of reasons some of which are described in this thread.
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  #136  
Old 03.01.2008, 22:30
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Re: new Jan 1 GmbH rules

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I would like to discuss the new changes for GmbH as of Jan 1. Have the changes come in as discussed below ? I am a bit concerned about the need to have a formal accounting firm that reviews and then sends a huge bill. Is this necessary ?
----------------

It will change though with the new "Juristische Person" law to be introduced Jan 1st, so it is not such bad advice to start with 20K. At this point indeed all new GmbH must be 20K and must have a formal revisionstelle ie accountancy firm that checks the books and signs off on them and sends a bill for 10K! There are also other changes such as being able to set up a GmbH as a single person and not requiring two people.
Well I assume so although I have not doubly checked. They were already written last year and available in June with a "go live" date of Jan 1st 08.
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  #137  
Old 03.01.2008, 22:38
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

Thanks Swissbob and Richard. That's what I need to know for sure and will get on with it.
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  #138  
Old 04.01.2008, 07:50
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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Setup cost = 10K.....can you clarify ?
-------------------
And to demonstrate this I too was involved in a GmbH in Zürich in July and this was 50% liberated cost was 10K. Admittedly it will go to 100K in due course but the setup cost was 10K...
[/quote]

Yes unclear wording. For Setup Cost read start capital investment...
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  #139  
Old 04.01.2008, 22:31
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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Hi All,

Just wondering if there would be any use for me writing a few tips and tricks and opening a thread where people can ask questions pertaining to being self-employed in Switzerland as a contractor/freelancer/GmbH/SA/AG/sole trader.

Thats it...
----------

I would suggest not using the term sole trader as it might be confusing...replace with '1 person company.
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  #140  
Old 04.01.2008, 23:15
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Re: Help for Businesses/Freelancers in CH

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----------

I would suggest not using the term sole trader as it might be confusing...replace with '1 person company.
I don't agree - one person company for me would now read GmbH. Sole trader says it all - individual running a trade and with no automatic company protection.
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