Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Market Place > Market Place > Commercial  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:17
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,527
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,745 Times in 4,348 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
You don't actually state that you have a commercial relationship with the OP who posted the advert but it would appear to be the case.

Is this so?
He'll be the 'Bren' off the website...
The following 3 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:21
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

something like a safe would be simple to rip off that wall / fence post etc etc, then you have the cost and worry of replacing all the locks.

just how strong is the back of the safe? (usually a huge weak spot) so if I stole the safe, and took it home, would I be able to get to the keys quickly and easily. Do they have a tamper alarm in etc etc

good idea in theory, the practice seems a bit different
The following 2 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:39
grumpygrapefruit's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NL, UK & sometimes ZH
Posts: 6,385
Groaned at 38 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 17,590 Times in 4,500 Posts
grumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

It's an interesting idea but a couple of points...

@ Bren, if you are the Bren on the web site it would be seen as good form to announce your relationship with the OP before giving positive feedback. Just saying ......

@ OP. You have given a lot of personal info about your family on your home page including the names of your 2 kids and what appears to be your home address. I would feel a tad uncomfortable about this.... I mean, what would a committed thief have to do for one of your kids to divulge the code? Seriously, I would remove this info and get a Post box number to publish on the site.

Good luck anyway, personally, I keep a spare house key under my Rottweilers bed in her outdoor cage
__________________
Mike

Monger of fine Cheeses
The following 5 users would like to thank grumpygrapefruit for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:43
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,232
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
I find it quite amusing to focus on how you could try and get the key out of a key safe with a large hammer when, to my mind, a swift blow with the same hammer would undoubtedly open almost any door. The same could be said for crow bars etc.. <snip>
<snip>I also find it quite amusing that you can't see that getting a key from a small box mounted on a fence post (as per the website) is far easier and less likely to attract attention as using that same hammer to smash in the front door.
In addition to this point (my exact thought when I looked at the web-site yesterday. re the fence-post mounting), I would also point out that a crowbared/stoved-in door would be covered by insurance... however, would "a stolen safe box, opened up and the official key used" situation be covered?

Do you not spot this potential flaw?

That people are using this system across Europe would be scant consolation to anyone having been robbed and being told by their insurance provider "tough luck, but no cover...".
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
  #25  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:51
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
You don't actually state that you have a commercial relationship with the OP who posted the advert but it would appear to be the case.

Is this so?
Tom Yes it is. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Its not so much of a commercial relationship as a marital relationship, sometimes I think a purely commercial relationship would be easier.

The keysafe business is one we run jointly, I am answering questions and comments as she is on various french courses at the moment and unavailable.

I certainly never intended to mislead anyone and as you say, the replies hopefully make my involvement fairly plain to see.
The following 5 users would like to thank Bren for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:52
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,131
Groaned at 170 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

I'd go during the night, break into the back of the safe, steal the key, and put that little safe box back on the fence post like nothing had happened.

As most apartments here use exactly the same style of key, I might even put another (probably kaba) key in its place so even if someone did try to use it they'd just think the key was faulty.

Then, armed with your front door key I'd go back at my leisure and help myself to all your stuff. I'd walk around the neighbourhood pushing your stolen property around until some "I can make 20 CHF" Arthur Daley bought it off me to flog on EF.
The following 2 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:53
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
something like a safe would be simple to rip off that wall / fence post etc etc, then you have the cost and worry of replacing all the locks.

just how strong is the back of the safe? (usually a huge weak spot) so if I stole the safe, and took it home, would I be able to get to the keys quickly and easily. Do they have a tamper alarm in etc etc

good idea in theory, the practice seems a bit different
The safes are supplied with fairly heavy duty fixing to attach them to a wall. The safes themselves are very solid and the back is certainly not a weak entry point.
  #28  
Old 10.05.2011, 12:59
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
It's an interesting idea but a couple of points...

@ Bren, if you are the Bren on the web site it would be seen as good form to announce your relationship with the OP before giving positive feedback. Just saying ......

@ OP. You have given a lot of personal info about your family on your home page including the names of your 2 kids and what appears to be your home address. I would feel a tad uncomfortable about this.... I mean, what would a committed thief have to do for one of your kids to divulge the code? Seriously, I would remove this info and get a Post box number to publish on the site.

Good luck anyway, personally, I keep a spare house key under my Rottweilers bed in her outdoor cage
As per my previous post my relationship to the business is now clearly stated.

Personal info. Point taken but running a small family business is like that. I dont think it increases substantially our liklihood of being burgled and if any theif is desperate enough to try kidnapping our torturing our kids to get the code then I dont see how a keysafe increases our risk. SOmeone that desperate would do anything.

Re the dog, good luck with that. We had an alsation that was a great guard dog until someone threw a ball, then it would do anything but come back to the person who trew it ... every solution has a flaw if you look hard enough
  #29  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:01
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
I'd go during the night, break into the back of the safe, steal the key, and put that little safe box back on the fence post like nothing had happened.

As most apartments here use exactly the same style of key, I might even put another (probably kaba) key in its place so even if someone did try to use it they'd just think the key was faulty.

Then, armed with your front door key I'd go back at my leisure and help myself to all your stuff. I'd walk around the neighbourhood pushing your stolen property around until some "I can make 20 CHF" Arthur Daley bought it off me to flog on EF.
Good idea but the safe is a solid single piece of heavy duty metal with one opening, the door. There is no 'hole in the back' which you can take the key out of. You must open the door which requires the code.
  #30  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:06
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
The safes are supplied with fairly heavy duty fixing to attach them to a wall. The safes themselves are very solid and the back is certainly not a weak entry point.

the things you attach them to may not be heavy duty, eg a wooden fence post its only as strong as the weakest point, and wall plugs are pretty weak
  #31  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:07
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

The best i ever saw was an apparent power point in the wall and to open the drawer you had to stick a key into the "live" socket. Dont see too many opportunist thieves ready to test that one.
The following 2 users would like to thank grumpygit for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:07
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
In addition to this point (my exact thought when I looked at the web-site yesterday. re the fence-post mounting), I would also point out that a crowbared/stoved-in door would be covered by insurance... however, would "a stolen safe box, opened up and the official key used" situation be covered?

Do you not spot this potential flaw?

That people are using this system across Europe would be scant consolation to anyone having been robbed and being told by their insurance provider "tough luck, but no cover...".
We recommend that safes are attached to the wall with the 'roll bolts' supplied with the safe. As you say if someone came along, removed the key safe, spent hours opening it and then gained access to you home with the key it would be a question the insurers would ask. I am sure however that this would not constitute negligent leaving of the keys as would probably be the case if you put them under a flower pot next to the door.

My point about the amounjt of these safes used throughout europe is that the situation you describe just doesnt happen. Most burgleries are opportunistic. You are describing a very planned, considered 'job' normally reserved for robbing banks. Keysafes offer a very strong barrier to opportunistic theives gaining easy access to your keys. As mentioned previously it would often be much easier to breakdown the door than break into a keysafe.

If you are worried about someone deliberately targeting your property in a systematic, planned way then I am sure there would be lots of opportunities for your security to be compromised and many of them a lot simpler than removing a keysafe, trying to break into it then coming back and using the key to gain access.
The following 2 users would like to thank Bren for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
The best i ever saw was an apparent power point in the wall and to open the drawer you had to stick a key into the "live" socket. Dont see too many opportunist thieves ready to test that one.
Sounds great for a safe but if you needed a key to access your house key it wouldnt be much good in the situations described
  #34  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:14
grumpygit's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: geneva
Posts: 1,476
Groaned at 29 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,508 Times in 695 Posts
grumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
Sounds great for a safe but if you needed a key to access your house key it wouldnt be much good in the situations described
well sometimes i lose one key but i very rarely lose two
  #35  
Old 10.05.2011, 13:36
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
well sometimes i lose one key but i very rarely lose two
How are you doing with marbles ? Thats what I am having a problem with.....
  #36  
Old 10.05.2011, 14:17
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
the things you attach them to may not be heavy duty, eg a wooden fence post its only as strong as the weakest point, and wall plugs are pretty weak
I agree. Having used key safes for a number of years in properties in central Bristol, Dinard France and now here, we very confident in their security. we started with heavy duty bolts to walls and have gradually moved to what we have now. The safes (espcially the Supra S6 which we use ourselves) are very, very strong pieces of kit.

In Bristol we had several properties in the center of the city and never had a problem and nor did anyone else we know who used them (and there were quite a few friends and family who fell in to this category). If anyone knows Bristol, or any large city in England for that matter, then you will know how the crime rates there compare to here. In my view there is no comparison.

I agree completely that security is only as strong as the weakest point, but I have yet to see a house where a keysafe, even one securely attached to a wooden fence post with normal screws, was a 'weaker point' of entry than a window or door in the house itself.

These safes are designed for this purpose and have been around for a long time now. They are not 'easy points of access' to any home (unless of course you have the code) and provide a reasonable solution to the problem of gaining access to your home when, for whatever reason, you dont have your keys to hand.

Some of the questions and comments today question if a keysafe is 'safe' against a determined theif targeting your property and prepared to go to any lengths to gain access to your home. I would argue that if this was the case you would have a serious issue whether you have a key safe or not. The same sort of questions were probably asked when the first windows came along ...

The real issues as I see them are :
1) are they safe against opportunistic criminals ? The experience to date even in inner cities says yes, definately.
2) do they give a easy way of accessing your home ? With the code, yes, without the code, definately not.
3) Do they allow children to gain easy access instead of being left outside (a real problem in the winter) ? From my extensive experience over the last few years, yes.
4) are they simple to install and use ? Yes
5) Can the code be quickly and easily changed if it becomes compromised ? yes.

My mother, grandmother and loads of freinds have these on their houses. No one has ever had a problem with their keysafes although I know of a couple of occassions where thefts have occured as a result of people leaving a door unlocked for a few minutes as they had to pop out and one of the kids wasnt back ...

In the end you pay your money and take your choice. For me this particular decision was a bit of a 'no brainer' (possibly because I was one of the people who left a door open for a few minutes .......)
  #37  
Old 10.05.2011, 14:29
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,144
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,233 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
well sometimes i lose one key but i very rarely lose two
I only have 1 key and very good at losing things---so I'm constantly paranoid
  #38  
Old 10.05.2011, 14:42
Ella 211's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 173
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 111 Times in 61 Posts
Ella 211 has earned some respectElla 211 has earned some respect
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

I'd be interested to know more about the insurance cover in switzerland.

I cant really see a benefit for one of these, yes, I know they are used for care companies in the UK, but there always lies a problem of the code changing and the info not being passed on or someone forgetting to deposit the key on the way out (happens more than you might think )
  #39  
Old 10.05.2011, 14:49
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
I only have 1 key and very good at losing things---so I'm constantly paranoid
Then it sounds like a good time to buy a key safe
This user would like to thank Bren for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 10.05.2011, 14:58
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Morges
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Bren has no particular reputation at present
Re: Don't get locked out of your home again !

Quote:
View Post
I'd be interested to know more about the insurance cover in switzerland.

I cant really see a benefit for one of these, yes, I know they are used for care companies in the UK, but there always lies a problem of the code changing and the info not being passed on or someone forgetting to deposit the key on the way out (happens more than you might think )
Any system can break down but, taking my Nans case for example, she has a company that sends someone to her home at around 8:30 every morning to help her get dressed, have a shower and make sure she takes her tablets etc (just for the record she was 90 a few weeks ago and doing well).

The company has sent between 10 and 15 different members of staff over the last 3 months, and most weeks its a different member of staff every day, although normally the same 5 or 6 who visit. From their point of view I would imagine handing out and managing keys for all of their 'customers' would be an absolute nightmare and cause a lot more problems than an occassional issue with a key safe.

Should a code change and the helper not know, they call their base and check and, if necessary, base calls the contact number to findout if it has changed (in this case my mum). This has happened once when mum changed the code afor security and forgot to tell the company but generally the system seems to work well.

Every system will fall down if people dont follow the rules. For example how would we all get on if we didnt put the handbrakes on on our cars ? For somoe reason we just do it. Its the same with the keysafes. My kids have been told that the key must be replaced as soon as the door is open and so far they have always done just that. I am sure there will come a time when they dont follow this rule and then we will be in the same position as we would have been if we had no keysafe in the first place.
Closed Thread

Tags
children, house, key safe, keys




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bike locked - lost keys :( hollisterb Daily life 12 22.03.2011 10:56
Frenchman locked up for asking Rachida Dati for 'an inflation' Castro International affairs/politics 16 03.11.2010 09:52
Landlord has locked the rubbish rooms Louis Wu Daily life 31 16.01.2009 16:17


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0