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  #21  
Old 04.01.2011, 10:42
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Quite frankly I say balderdash.
Dog on the lead at the side of the road or in town, dog in the woods or on a path not on the lead.
Where is this mystical place where there are no people?
Quite frankly, you should have thought about this before having a dog in an urban environment. If you were unwilling to accept the entire spectrum of responsibilities of dog ownership, you shouldn't have one. Dog in the woods = probably not a lot of people around, yes? If there are, dog on lead. If there aren't, you dog needs to be able respond immediately to a heel command and be put on a lead if someone shows up. I tire of owners of 'well trained' dogs who always comment 'He NEVER does anything like that!'. Well, yeah, he does because you're a bad owner and can't read your dogs mind and he's not as well trained as you thought. These are typically the owners who also blatantly ignore large signs reading 'Dogs must be on lead at ALL times'. You'd never do that, right?
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  #22  
Old 04.01.2011, 10:47
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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(snip)...
I am still shocked at how many dogs aren't leashed though!
Dog control laws differ by cantons - this is something we all need to understand.

It is only in SZ where all dogs must be leashed when out in public - all other cantons allow off-leash exercise in some form or other (listed breeds being a general exception in the cantons with BSL).

In fact, the federal animal welfare law (TschV) promotes off-lead exercise for most dogs.

Art. 71 Bewegung 1 Hunde müssen täglich im Freien und entsprechend ihrem Bedürfnis ausgeführt
werden. Soweit möglich sollen sie sich dabei auch unangeleint bewegen können


(Roughly, dogs must, according to their abilities, be given daily exercise in open spaces. As far as possible, this should be off-lead.)


Haley, since I've used your quote - in BE (I'm assuming that you do your walking in Bern), there is no law requiring dogs to be leashed. In fact, a quick browse through the BE laws summarized by Tier Im Recht:

http://www.tierimrecht.org/de/tiersc...recht/bern.php

Nonetheless, the provision under the federal law (TschV) applies:

Art. 77 Verantwortung der Personen, die Hunde halten oder ausbilden
Wer einen Hund hält oder ausbildet, hat Vorkehrungen zu treffen, damit der Hund Menschen und Tiere nicht gefährdet.


(Roughly, a dog owner must ensure that his/her dog does not endanger another person or animal.)


What this means in practice is that a dog must be under control at all times - but unless you are in SZ, 'under control' can mean voice control as well as on lead.

If an owner has trained his/her dog to the point of reliable instant recall even in the face of distraction, a lead is not necessary to keep the dog under control. But if one's dog's recall is not 100%, if you can't say hand on heart that your dog will recall on a dime, a lead is needed. A responsible owner knows when his/her dog should be re-leashed.

Planthead's dog is better trained than mine.

My muttley crew have good, but not perfect, recall - so they are put on lead. But some dogs are indeed trained to the point where they can be kept under control at all times without a lead. In contrast, some dogs cannot be let off lead at all. Some owners should be kept on lead.

But everyone should understand that (in general, in the absence of local regulation) the requirement under law is 'under control', not 'on lead.' Except in the Heart Of Darkness.

But in any case, you should always recall your dog - keeping him by your side or leashed, which ever is appropriate to your level of training - when a person or other animal passes by. One should not allow one's dog to approach another person or animal without permission. It's that simple.

The important thing is not to allow your dog to bother others. It's the polite, responsible thing to do. We all have to share the limited space available; we all have a right to enjoy the outdoors but we must respect other's right to do the same.
.

Last edited by meloncollie; 04.01.2011 at 11:07.
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  #23  
Old 04.01.2011, 10:48
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Quite frankly I say balderdash.
Dog on the lead at the side of the road or in town, dog in the woods or on a path not on the lead.
Where is this mystical place where there are no people?
Do you have control of your dog off leash? If so, then fine. If your dog runs up to mine when I am out walking her on leash, I will control mine, you control yours.

As a consequence, I try not to walk my dog on narrow paths where she might have an opportunity to get into trouble. I keep to open spaces.

In a really crowded area, I actually use a muzzle - more for her own protection.
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Old 04.01.2011, 10:48
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

Isn't it the law that dogs must be kept on a lead at all times?

Tom
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  #25  
Old 04.01.2011, 10:56
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

I'd have to take care when walking my dog. It's not the dog (who, by my house, won't be on the leash) but the cats that will follow him and will sit in the middle of the path and not move for your dog.

That makes dogs that don't know them very nervous. The cats will growl at your dog. That will make your dog even more confused and nervous.

btw my dog won't approach anyone else - alone or with their own dog. He's got stuff to do, things to sniff. And he will return to my side with a click of the fingers.
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Old 04.01.2011, 10:57
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I keep my dog close by me when others pass and I reward her for this behavior (paying attention to me). But she has to stay on a leash.
Thanks Edot...... finally someone has hit the nail on the head.

One of my pet hates is people with dogs on a leash and they pull back on the dog so hard out of their own fear, that they have no idea the message they are sending to the dog.

Seriously, next time you pass someone with a leashed dog, check the tension, look up at the owner (you will see their fear), then at the dog. The dog has no idea what it's supposed to be afraid of.... but it happens every time a person or another dog walks by.
The result = the dog is a loose cannon when unleashed (it's a self fulfilling prophecy).

You should only need a short flick on the lead to get the dog to sit.... release the tension on the lead.... and a bit of positive reinforcement to let the dog know that he's doing well.

People are much less likely to be afraid of passing a dog when the owner is giving him a big scratch, and the dog is panting away happy as Larry.


I still think that dogs should be leashed in public, and not be allowed where clearly signed.... people should have the right to go where ever they want.
However, people should also know the risks associated with entering a park where dogs are allowed to be unleashed... don't go there and complain about a dog running at you in a park where you know this will happen. Dog owners should have the right to excercise their hound in designated areas, as you have the right to excercise common sense.
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Old 04.01.2011, 11:03
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

Better post ^^^^^^

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Quite frankly, you should have thought about this before having a dog in an urban environment. If you were unwilling to accept the entire spectrum of responsibilities of dog ownership, you shouldn't have one. Dog in the woods = probably not a lot of people around, yes? If there are, dog on lead. If there aren't, you dog needs to be able respond immediately to a heel command and be put on a lead if someone shows up. I tire of owners of 'well trained' dogs who always comment 'He NEVER does anything like that!'. Well, yeah, he does because you're a bad owner and can't read your dogs mind and he's not as well trained as you thought. These are typically the owners who also blatantly ignore large signs reading 'Dogs must be on lead at ALL times'. You'd never do that, right?
I chose not to live in an urban environment for this reason.
In town on lead, in country not on lead. You don't agree with this, tell me when you see me.

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Do you have control of your dog off leash? If so, then fine. If your dog runs up to mine when I am out walking her on leash, I will control mine, you control yours.
Dogs on leads are generally more aggressive. I only put mine on the lead if someone else has an aggressive dog.
If my dog is on the lead and I am walking towards another dog who is off the lead I let mine off the lead. This generally avoids aggression.

One thing that really really is wrong though is picking up a small dog, if you want to cause problems this is the thing to do.
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  #28  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:04
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Isn't it the law that dogs must be kept on a lead at all times?

Tom
No,

In public yes, but where a park is deisgnated that dogs can be unleashed.... how does this law make sense?


Besides, I've never heard of someone being fined for having a dog unleashed...... only when the dog did something wrong and it was unleashed.

There is no such thing as good dogs or bad dogs...... there are only good owners and bad owners.

If you haven't spent the time and energy training your hound properly.... leash the beast.
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  #29  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:04
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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One of my pet hates is people with dogs on a leash and they pull back on the dog so hard out of their own fear, that they have no idea the message they are sending to the dog.
It's even worse when they have a choke chain and hit the dog.

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However, people should also know the risks associated with entering a park where dogs are allowed to be unleashed... don't go there and complain about a dog running at you in a park where you know this will happen. Dog owners should have the right to excercise their hound in designated areas, as you have the right to excercise common sense.
Absolutely.
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Old 04.01.2011, 11:05
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Quite frankly I say balderdash.
Dog on the lead at the side of the road or in town, dog in the woods or on a path not on the lead.
Where is this mystical place where there are no people?
I for one do not appreciate having my arse sniffed and hands dribbled on by passing dogs, which often happens with dogs not on leads. If there were an 'electric stick' available (a bit like a mild Taser) I would carry it with me on walks and apply it every time a dog makes physical contact.

Only problem is I would get through a lot of batteries...
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  #31  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:07
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I for one do not appreciate having my arse sniffed and hands dribbled on by passing dogs, which often happens with dog not on leads. If there were an 'electric stick' available (a bit like a mild Taser) I would carry it with me on walks and apply it time a dog makes physical contact.

Only problem is I would get through a lot of batteries...
Hopefully to the owner, unless they like that sort of thing.
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  #32  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:08
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

I get quite nervous when I see dogs now as I have encountered so many times a dog coming up to my daughters pushchair and start sniffing and licking her. I have no idea if the dog is safe or how it will react if my toddler pokes it in the eye (cue all the people who will now say I should have my daughter under control ).
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  #33  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:15
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I get quite nervous when I see dogs now as I have encountered so many times a dog coming up to my daughters pushchair and start sniffing and licking her. I have no idea if the dog is safe or how it will react if my toddler pokes it in the eye (cue all the people who will now say I should have my daughter under control ).
We are in a country where dogs are more tolerate than kids...
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Old 04.01.2011, 11:18
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I for one do not appreciate having my arse sniffed and hands dribbled on by passing dogs, which often happens with dogs not on leads. If there were an 'electric stick' available (a bit like a mild Taser) I would carry it with me on walks and apply it every time a dog makes physical contact.

Only problem is I would get through a lot of batteries...
buy a small water pistol and fill it with a mix of water and pepperoncini juices ...
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Old 04.01.2011, 11:19
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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We are in a country where dogs are more tolerate than kids...
...can you blame them?
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  #36  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:22
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

... another reason to carry some pepper spray while on a run ...
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Old 04.01.2011, 11:22
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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We are in a country where dogs are more tolerate than kids...

Troll post.
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Old 04.01.2011, 11:23
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I for one do not appreciate having my arse sniffed and hands dribbled on by passing dogs, which often happens with dogs not on leads. If there were an 'electric stick' available (a bit like a mild Taser) I would carry it with me on walks and apply it every time a dog makes physical contact.

Only problem is I would get through a lot of batteries...

Another Troll post, you should know better than this surely.
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  #39  
Old 04.01.2011, 11:28
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I get quite nervous when I see dogs now as I have encountered so many times a dog coming up to my daughters pushchair and start sniffing and licking her. I have no idea if the dog is safe or how it will react if my toddler pokes it in the eye (cue all the people who will now say I should have my daughter under control ).
OK, I think that's fair enough (ha ha....but no, not the bit about keeping your daughter under control).

I realise you must not be a dog person, but here are a few tips for you in the future.

Pushchair:
Place your hand over your daughter between your daughter and the dog. Look at it in the eyes with your mouth shut, and no expression on your face. The dog should back off calmly.

Basically, you can pick a dogs intentions by it's tail and ears.... there are other cues, but these are the main two:
Tail up, ears up = OK.
Tail down, ears back = run for your life !!!*
(*actually no, you should never do this. ALWAYS stand your ground and project strength - no matter how scared you are).

Another tip about an approaching dog. Try not to do so with an open hand.
keep your fingers closed, and approach with the back of your hand.... Dogs who maybe a bit scared don't want to see that you are in a position to grab them.... it makes the fear worse. Demonstrate that you are not a threat, project authority, and you will win every time.

FYI, if the dog doesn't come to your hand (back of it)... don't force it. Just ignore the dog. (after all.... he would have bitten you by now)


I've been chased, bitten, threatened by stacks of dogs when I was a farmer.... and the best trick I can offer everyone for an approaching angry dog:
Ignorance
Seriously, don't make eye contact, stand tall, look around.
The dog won't bite if it can't see that it has control over you.
When the barking stops... look briefly at the dog, and YAWN and look away.
You will demonstrate that these actions are not threatening, the dog will lose interest and walk away.
DON'T REACT to the threat.
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Old 04.01.2011, 11:29
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Troll post.
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Another Troll post, you should know better than this surely.
Don't be so tight!
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