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  #41  
Old 04.01.2011, 12:34
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

Guys,

Golden Rule number 1:
"Violence is a language amongst dogs"
If you speak to them with violence, imagine how they are going to speak to you back?

If you think you can take on a G Shepard with a 1,200lb/in2 bite, be my guest.

People are supposed to be smarter than dogs.... and they wonder why they get bitten?


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If there were an 'electric stick' available (a bit like a mild Taser) I would carry it with me on walks and apply it every time a dog makes physical contact.

Only problem is I would get through a lot of batteries...
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buy a small water pistol and fill it with a mix of water and pepperoncini juices ...
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... another reason to carry some pepper spray while on a run ...
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  #42  
Old 04.01.2011, 12:35
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

Folks, it's all about respect.

As dog owners we need to be aware that the times they are a-changing. Switzerland is no longer the dog-friendly paradise it once was, many people are indeed afraid of, or uncomfortable around, our dogs.

We need to reassure the folks we encounter that our dogs are well trained, and pose no threat. The simplest way to do so is to recall our dogs, keep them by our sides so that it is clear they are under control, when someone or some animal comes into view.

I play this up a bit when out and about. Even though mine are on lead, whenever a person comes towards us my dogs are trained to step off the path and go into a sit. They then do a 'high five' wave to the person. Very corny, I'll admit - but it gets people smiling, and underscores that the dogs are indeed firmly under my control.

I started doing this as part of a distraction routine while working with my reactive mutt - but now it's become a bit of a public relations exercise.

If one's dog can run free, that's great - but a quick recall and sit while a person walks by does not ruin the dog's exercise. In fact, doing so makes the walk more interesting for the dog - it's good to reinforce training by randomly recalling when out and about. Think of every walk as a training opportunity as well as play time.

On the flip side, folks without dogs do also need to understand the law as it stands today. There is no general leash requirement, except in SZ. There is a control requirement. Off lead can still be under control if the dog is well trained. An off lead dog, keeping his distance from you, minding his own business, should not bee seen as a threat - as long his owner has him under control.

If you are uncomfortable, simply call out and ask the owner to re-leash. And dog owners, please comply anytime someone asks you to re-leash. As above, it's a good training opportunity.

I'll be the first to condemn the numpties with poorly trained dogs off lead. No question, these folks need to leash their dogs - and then be frog-marched to the nearest Hundeschule.

I'll say it again. We all have the right to use the open spaces to pursue the hobbies we enjoy. But my pursuit of happiness should not hinder yours. And vice versa. With a little tolerance and understanding and a healthy dose of respect for others, we can all enjoy ourselves.
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  #43  
Old 04.01.2011, 12:39
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

This reads like my parenting style

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Don't make eye contact, stand tall, look around.
The child won't bite if it can't see that it has control over you.
When the crying stops... look briefly at the child, and YAWN and look away.
You will demonstrate that these actions are not working, the child will lose interest and walk away.
DON'T REACT to the threat.
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  #44  
Old 04.01.2011, 12:45
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

The problem is that the society is the way it is, full of smarts and idiots. And since idiots too own dogs, more often than it should, a owner will show no sign of respect for other people's fear and concerns.

Too many will give you a look when asked to leash their dog, like it is the most stupid thing to ask. This is the same problem with the poop. Some idiots make it hard for people to like dogs in general and have respect for them.
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Old 04.01.2011, 12:47
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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This reads like my parenting style
So true!

But be careful, you are trolling...
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Old 04.01.2011, 12:59
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Hmmm you have to understand that I walk my dog off the lead most of the time, that is the way we have trained him. I am always shocked at the number of dogs that can only be walked on a lead.
When I approach you I have no idea if you want me to have my dog on the lead or not.
If you want me to put mine on the lead then please tell me and don't expect me to read your mind.
--------------------------------

How is a none dog owning individual out walking with his/her kids to know what state of mind your dog operates in??? Savage, hungry, playful, ferocious etc... It is YOUR responsibility to manage your dog and make sure it is not a nuisance or danger to others. We should not have to tell you, you should know whether your dog should be by your side, on a leash or wearing a muzzle. If you don't know, perhaps you should reconsider dog ownership.
But please don't put the onus on others to TELL YOU how to manage YOUR animal!
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  #47  
Old 04.01.2011, 13:01
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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--------------------------------

How is a none dog owning individual out walking with his/her kids to know what state of mind your dog operates in??? Savage, hungry, playful, ferocious etc... It is YOUR responsibility to manage your dog and make sure it is not a nuisance or danger to others. We should not have to tell you, you should know whether your dog should be by your side, on a leash or wearing a muzzle. If you don't know, perhaps you should reconsider dog ownership.
But please don't put the onus on others to TELL YOU how to manage YOUR animal!
I was talking about meeting another dog not about meeting children.
You have become over excited about a post you have read incorrectly.
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  #48  
Old 04.01.2011, 13:07
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

It was mentioned earlier - dogs should ALWAYS be under control.

Some dogs require a leash to be under control - some are well trained not to.

IMHO if your dog does not respond to voice commands, will not heal and will not respect others - then it should be on the leash at ALL times.

I generally don't have a problem with dogs (and their owners) - dog walkers can be a right royal pain in the arse when they take up an entire path with a pack of dogs - but single owners and dogs not an issue.

99% of the time - it isn't the fault of the dog - but the fault of the owner.
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Old 04.01.2011, 13:17
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

May be you smell like a dog??

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I for one do not appreciate having my arse sniffed and hands dribbled on by passing dogs, which often happens with dogs not on leads. If there were an 'electric stick' available (a bit like a mild Taser) I would carry it with me on walks and apply it every time a dog makes physical contact.

Only problem is I would get through a lot of batteries...
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Old 04.01.2011, 13:52
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

It really is a delicate balance of the dog owners and non dog owners interests.

We dog owners have the right to exercise our dogs, in big open spaces. We just need to be sensitive and aware of the non-dog owners rights to enjoy them as well, without encountering any dogs jumping on them - especially those with muddy paws. Even I, as a dog owner, dont appreciate a 40kg labrador jumping on me, leaving paw prints on my jumper because you as the owner, cant control it.

Neither do I appreciate having to engage in a tug of war with a 60kg rottie when its trying to wrangle the frisbee out of my hands and you giving the excuse that your dog "goes nuts and only wants to play when he sees toys." Lame. Its about teaching the dog manners, like teaching your child how to say please, and thank you. I mean, you dont let a child run up to a stranger and grab the lollipop out of their hands do you??

As bill said, there are no good or bad dogs. Only good and bad owners.

My dog's recall is 99.9% accurate - I make it fun for him to come back to me. He knows that he'll get a good rub or a biscuit. He never strays far when he's off lead.

But the reason I didnt give him a 100% is simply because I dont think like a dog. I try to, but I know that I never will. We humans are not ruled by instincts like they are. No matter how well trained a dog is, all it takes is for something in the environment or other people to set them off.

A good example was him on his night time walk, the town is usually dead by then but I put him on the leash anyway. He suddenly tugged so hard on the leash, almost choking himself because a rat darted past. Instincts as a rat hunter over took him and he just wanted to go in the direction of the rat (across the road). A car then happened to drive past - I dread to think what would have happened if he wasnt on the leash.

Alot of dog owners seem to take for granted that our dogs are well trained (some of us more, in our heads) but the non-dog owners dont know that. And there are a million and one situations that we dog owners are not prepared for (see rat example above!) although we try our best to equip ourselves but there is really no knowing. Its best to strike that balance between letting them off leash in open places and keeping them on the leash in the busier ones, which is where the non dog owners expect them to be - regardless of your own beliefs and confidence as a dog owner.
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  #51  
Old 04.01.2011, 15:24
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

I grew up with dogs in the house - we had a setter cross, rottweiler, bull mastiff at various times; so I'm fine with dogs. My 3 y.o. son on the other hand has a complete phobia of dogs ever since some idiots in Lange Erlen had several large dogs off the lead running around the Vita Parcours. They didn't bite or bark, but basically came right up to his face and he got a shock.

What added insult to injury was the fact that the owners made no attempt to apologise - instead accused me of not having my sun under control - which was not true as he was holding my hand and cowering behind me trying to get away. As I was too busy trying to comfort my son (my first priority) I didn't get chance to pursue matters with the owners. Too bad as such people are a menace in my book and they should feel the full weight of the law.

The law in Baselstadt states that dogs must be on a lead in such frequently used public areas (no idea what it is in Zürich - must find out). A friend in Basel once told me if you can pull the name tag off the collar of a dog which is being a menace it can be handed into the police though I would not like to get too close to a dog with its teeth bared!

What makes me mad is I would like to own a dog in the future once we move to a bigger place with a garden - and I'm going to have to jump through a series of hoops with my son to help him over his phobia all because of some mindless halfwits who should not be allowed to own dogs.

Cheers,
Nick
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  #52  
Old 04.01.2011, 15:44
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

If I'm out running, most dogs are fine; and 99% of owners who think they won't be able to control their dog are pretty good about getting the lead on before there is a problem.

If a dog does come up barking at me that isn't under control, then it is fair game - and I reserve the right to use force to protect myself (depending on size and breed - and size and demeanour of the owner). So don't blame me if I happen to accidentally kick the dog as it gets in the way of my stride. Interestingly, the owners of such brutes are usually the ones that come up with a cr@p excuse when you do ask them to put their mutt on a lead.

Cheers,
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Hmmm you have to understand that I walk my dog off the lead most of the time, that is the way we have trained him. I am always shocked at the number of dogs that can only be walked on a lead.
When I approach you I have no idea if you want me to have my dog on the lead or not.
If you want me to put mine on the lead then please tell me and don't expect me to read your mind.
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Old 04.01.2011, 16:15
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

For the runners out there - if a dog owner does bring their dog under control - it is always worth saying "merci"

I work on the theory the more often I thank them for controlling their dogs - the more likely they are to do it for other runners/people.
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Old 04.01.2011, 16:28
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

Oh I do that. And I say "bitte" to the ones who don't - which is a bit more civilised than the slapping I would like to deliver.

Cheers,
Nick

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For the runners out there - if a dog owner does bring their dog under control - it is always worth saying "merci"

I work on the theory the more often I thank them for controlling their dogs - the more likely they are to do it for other runners/people.
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Old 04.01.2011, 16:30
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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For the runners out there - if a dog owner does bring their dog under control - it is always worth saying "merci"

I work on the theory the more often I thank them for controlling their dogs - the more likely they are to do it for other runners/people.
Thanks for that I always pull my dog out of the path of a jogger or a cyclist (its the only polite thing to do) and i always appreciate a smile and a thanks
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Old 04.01.2011, 18:01
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Your dog is nobody else responsability. Nobody should have to tell you to put your dog on leash, that is your job. Just keep in mind that everybody wants your dog in leash at all time when someone is around, so you will not have to read individual minds. When someone is around you, keep your dog in leash so they won't have to ask you to do so.
I would like to respectfully disagree with you here Nil. I'm not a dog owner, but do not have a problem if a well trained and non-agressive dog is allowed to walk /run in the owner's presence off-leash. I personally would think it rather sad if all dogs could only go outside when leashed, and am happy to see them enjoying themselves as long as they are under the control of their owner who should be aware and able to control the dog when necessary.

However, I certainly respect your opinion that you would prefer all dogs leashed at all times - just please don't assume that everyone feels the same way.
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Old 04.01.2011, 19:19
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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We are in a country where dogs are more tolerate than kids...
This is true but it has gotten better over the years. When I was a kid, my parents sometimes got comments if they took us to a restaurant, but dogs under the table were quite accepted and allowed
As much as I appreciate dogs, I do find that quite a turn-off in a restaurant.
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Old 04.01.2011, 20:27
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I would like to respectfully disagree with you here Nil. I'm not a dog owner, but do not have a problem if a well trained and non-agressive dog is allowed to walk /run in the owner's presence off-leash. I personally would think it rather sad if all dogs could only go outside when leashed, and am happy to see them enjoying themselves as long as they are under the control of their owner who should be aware and able to control the dog when necessary.

However, I certainly respect your opinion that you would prefer all dogs leashed at all times - just please don't assume that everyone feels the same way.
You didn't understand my comment. My point was about him not to be able to read other people's mind. If he can't judge by himself when it is appropriate to put your dog on leash, just start with the assumption that everybody wants to have his dog on the leash, no confusion and no excuses of not reading minds.

My old dog Zack was all the time unleash, even in the big city of Istanbul. But he was all the time walking at my feet on the sidewalks, no exception. I knew people are particularly scared of dogs in that country so I did my best to make them feel safe.

In the park, he was free to run everywhere were it was human free. I was also able to call him at anytime to come next to me if a street dog or someone was coming by. The few times he didn't listen straight away, he got punish by staying on leash for a few days. After that, he was so happy to recover his freedom that he was listening at the second of my call.

I never did exception with someone alone, someone with kids or someone with an other dog, I was calling him at each time. It wasn't to other people to tell me to put him on leash because they felt unconfortable, it was me to be responsable and pro-active.

This is why I told him to assume in that case that everybody want his dog on a leash.
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Old 05.01.2011, 23:20
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I grew up with dogs in the house - we had a setter cross, rottweiler, bull mastiff at various times; so I'm fine with dogs. My 3 y.o. son on the other hand has a complete phobia of dogs ever since some idiots in Lange Erlen had several large dogs off the lead running around the Vita Parcours. They didn't bite or bark, but basically came right up to his face and he got a shock.

I groaned you because I can't believe you are serious.

A dog looked at your son and now he is traumatised?
I am sorry but either your son needs to harden up because, and lets be honest, the playground is going to offer a lot worse than a dog that looks at him strangely or you have completely over reacted.

Also why do people always say, I have had lots of experiences with dogs when I was a child, we had x, y, z and therefore I can happily be ignorant and write what I like. It sounds exactly like saying, I have friends who are black and then reeling out a whole load of racist clap trap, mistakenly thinking that you have justified yourself in talking utter rubbish.

"I grew up with kids there was one in my house when I was young, however one was screaming non-stop on a train and now my dog is traumatised and runs away everytime he see's a small child, THIS MUST STOP".....is about as ludicrous as the nonsense you have written.
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Old 06.01.2011, 00:06
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

I think it's more than the dog 'looking' at the child - imagine an animal that's both taller than you and masses about five or six times your entire body bounding right up to your face, then opening its mouth to reveal a mass of sharp, pointed teeth. Add in the fact that this has happened at a time in your life when you're still learning about things in the world, such as what animals are safe to handle, and which are dangerous? Can leave some long-term effects ...

I grew up with dogs around too, and never feel threatened myself, but I educate my kids (students as well as the children of my body!) to not approach strange dogs. Instead, either allow the dog to approach (if it appears friendly & interested) or address the owner to ask permission to approach the dog. As well as not scaring a timid dog, it is polite and gives the children time to assess the dog's nature and mood a little.

I am, however, on alert when very big, active dogs are bounding around near any of my kids (again, students as well!) - ready to step in firmly if things get out of hand. Haven't had to do anything physical, but once I had to send a pair of uncollared mongrels packing at a school in Australia (they'd just wandered into the school at pick-up time - kids ranging from 3-12 all milling around, parents "picking them up" then letting them run about - very confusing and potentially dangerous place for a couple of stray dogs!). It was interesting watching other staff (and some parents!) look at the dogs with an almost frightened expression, yet do nothing to remove them. A firm and clear, "Go home!" had them turned around and out of the school pretty fast.

btw, I have been bitten by a dog once ... was my grandmother's old, mad corgi that was half-blind and half-deaf. Having an ear infection at the time made it more irritable than normal, so when I ruffled the fur between its ears it turned and bit me on the pad of my thumb. Still have the (physical) scar, 32 years later ... and that foul-smelling little ball of evil is thirty years in the grave!
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Dogs? Are all the dogs here pedigree? I don't think I've seen a mongrel since arrival Zug bound Other/general 81 28.11.2008 13:56
Big dogs not on a leash in public places. Canadian_dude Complaints corner 188 10.03.2008 13:07


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