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  #81  
Old 07.01.2011, 22:38
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Yes, you will find good and bad in both. You will also find good and bad teeth in my mouth. You will find good and bad clementines in the bin at the store. You will find good and bad deals on the internet. You will find good and bad everywhere (which is why religion was born). However, for me, putting children and animals on the same level is unethical.
I never remember putting them on the same level, so please quote the statement .... though if I had a chance on a meeting with one of the Bulger killers or a rottweiler, I'll take the latter ...

I used an analogy ...

I didn't realise that the devil had taken control of clementines ... but I had my suspicions that something was up in the fruit bowl at Christmas. The banana's are beginning to look a tad evil, and the avocado is reading Alistair Crowley books ....
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  #82  
Old 07.01.2011, 22:46
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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I didn't realise that the devil had taken control of clementines ... but I had my suspicions that something was up in the fruit bowl at Christmas. The banana's are beginning to look a tad evil, and the avocado is reading Alistair Crowley books ....
But the Christmas chocolate was all good.
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  #83  
Old 07.01.2011, 22:51
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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However, for me, putting children and animals on the same level is unethical.
I though it was behaviours that the hogs statement was referring to in that you will find good kids/bad kids and good dogs/bad dogs, so in that context I guess it makes sense.

Thing is, badly behaved dogs seem easy targets here, with talk of kicking or pig sticking, and how bad some owners are. Not long ago there was a thread on someones kid being bullied by other kids, what remedy then for badly behaved loin fruit and their owners?

My dogs are always on the lead when other dogs are about, and either put on the lead or called to heel and made to sit when someone is coming. Not because my dogs are a problem, but out of courtesy because I don't know how the people would react... dead simple really.
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  #84  
Old 07.01.2011, 23:16
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Guys,

Golden Rule number 1:
"Violence is a language amongst dogs"
If you speak to them with violence, imagine how they are going to speak to you back?

If you think you can take on a G Shepard with a 1,200lb/in2 bite, be my guest.

People are supposed to be smarter than dogs.... and they wonder why they get bitten?
Do not forget the speed. My sister-in-law some years ago got attacked by two robbers after having left a bus in a suburb of Zug. She yelled for help, and virtually within minutes her do "arrived" on the scene. Police took due care of the robbers and investigated. It was found out that the dog had jumped from the balcony on the first floor directly onto the road, had covered the 300 meters with a speed of some 40 km/h and in his jump onto one of the robbers had covered almost three meters. He was a medium-sized shepherd-dog, and so it is easy to imagine that the robber had no chance. Those police-agents were absolutely enthusiastic about the dog !
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  #85  
Old 08.01.2011, 01:02
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

These threads go like this.

1. Someone complains about a dog
2. Owners say other owner is bad and should have controlled their dog
3. At some point a dog hater jumps in and says something retarded like, ALL DOGS MUST BE ON A LEAD ALL THE TIME.
4. Then someone will tell a story about their child having a bad experience with a dog.
5. Then suddenly animal cruelty is ok and justified by saying "But I had a dog once, therefore I know what I am talking about" and people feel completely justified in saying, "IF I SEE A DOG I WILL KICK IT"
6. People respond saying children are as annoying as dogs because actually it isn't ok to kick a dog.
7. Then it turns into a train wreck if it hasn't done so already.


Nils, I think your point of view is wrong. You will never understand that your point of view can be wrong, so lets leave it there.

I believe that there is no point owning a dog unless it can be let off the lead....not everywhere, not all the time and you always need to be careful around children. However that is what I enjoy about my dog, long walks with him bumbling around doing his own thing, throwing the ball/ stick, watching him swim etc. etc. etc.
If that annoys you, then frankly bad luck.

If you are out walking/running etc and a dog wanders past you not on a lead and you jump 6 feet in the air out of fear, then you need to address your issues with animals, not complain at the owner or take it out on the dog....this is your problem deal with it.
The world is too fluffy as it is.

If my dog wanders up to you I will call him away, otherwise he will likely ignore you because frankly most people aren't that interesting. If you ask to stroke him I will let you...always ask before stroking a dog.

If you are walking a dog on a lead and you tell me your dog is aggressive towards other dogs, I will put mine on a lead. If you don't tell me I will just let mine carry on wandering around, he may say hello to your dog, this is what dogs do. This is a good thing, a social dog is a happy dog.
If your dog reacts aggressively try letting him off the lead, or just simply walk off the path with him, that makes it pretty clear.
Do not pick your dog up, this will result in the other dog jumping up and you will get angry.

Children and dogs are the best combination in the world, there is no better combination. Get your kid used to dogs and animals as quickly and as early as you can. Do not have the child on his first school field trip who has never seen a cow before.

Lets leave it there.


EDIT: Also read what people actually write. Most of the people complaining in this thread haven't read the post they are complaining about. They wade in with their point of view, often aggressively without actually bothering to understand what someone else has written.
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  #86  
Old 08.01.2011, 09:21
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Nils, I think your point of view is wrong. You will never understand that your point of view can be wrong, so lets leave it there.

I believe that there is no point owning a dog unless it can be let off the lead....not everywhere, not all the time and you always need to be careful around children. However that is what I enjoy about my dog, long walks with him bumbling around doing his own thing, throwing the ball/ stick, watching him swim etc. etc. etc.
If that annoys you, then frankly bad luck.

If you are out walking/running etc and a dog wanders past you not on a lead and you jump 6 feet in the air out of fear, then you need to address your issues with animals, not complain at the owner or take it out on the dog....this is your problem deal with it.
The world is too fluffy as it is.

If my dog wanders up to you I will call him away, otherwise he will likely ignore you because frankly most people aren't that interesting. If you ask to stroke him I will let you...always ask before stroking a dog.

If you are walking a dog on a lead and you tell me your dog is aggressive towards other dogs, I will put mine on a lead. If you don't tell me I will just let mine carry on wandering around, he may say hello to your dog, this is what dogs do. This is a good thing, a social dog is a happy dog.
If your dog reacts aggressively try letting him off the lead, or just simply walk off the path with him, that makes it pretty clear.
Do not pick your dog up, this will result in the other dog jumping up and you will get angry.

Children and dogs are the best combination in the world, there is no better combination. Get your kid used to dogs and animals as quickly and as early as you can. Do not have the child on his first school field trip who has never seen a cow before.

Lets leave it there.


EDIT: Also read what people actually write. Most of the people complaining in this thread haven't read the post they are complaining about. They wade in with their point of view, often aggressively without actually bothering to understand what someone else has written.
For sure we can not agree on many points especially you showing that the whole world is YOUR dog's playground and to the others to deal with it.

Now, I am not going to repeat what is my relation with dogs and / or my experiences, because I already made it clear.

I am not affraid of any dog beside one, one time here in Switzerland from an irresponsable owner who believed that his rights was higher then anyone else's.

My daughter has no fear in dogs and I play the say Hi to the dog over there to who she will wave a bye bye all smilling and loving. I teach her to never ever touch a dog without asking the owner.

Now if ALL dogs owners were as half respectful as I am toward dogs to other human being, I wouldn't have a problem. But no, sadly, to often they don't care how their dog act with people, other dogs or kids.

If your dog comes to us with good intentions, I can see it. I can read his body language and I will ask you if we can touch him. If your dog comes running to us, with his ears down and in an agressive manner, I'll see it too, and I will make sure that he doesn't reach my daughter. If this is his goal and if it is what he is trying to do, I will punch him, push him, kick him. I won't let a dog hurt my daughter. She is an human being and she comes way far earlier in the chain of who is important to protect.

It is never the dog's fault if he acts the way he acts. If the dog doesn't have a good owner to take care of him, to protect him and make sure the dog doesn't get into trouble, I feel very sorry for him.

I will never hurt a human being, but if someone tries to hurt me, I'll fight back. If a dog wants to attack me, I'll fight it back.

This is not advocating violence toward dogs, this is a basic instinct of protection toward anything who could put me or my family in danger.

I won't give a chance to a dog to eat half of my child's face either because the owner swear that his dog his just a sweet little puppy that will never ever be agressive.

That, no ones never know, not even a dog's owner (like a professional dog's trainer will tell you).

Beside your little person and your dog, other people exist too and if you can't accept that other peoples are not confromtable with your dog and you don't give a shit about it, that is your problem my dear. Because not everybody will have much patience or understanting toward you dog. He may gets hurts from someone like it and at the end of the day, that will be YOUR fault, not your poor dog.
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Old 08.01.2011, 10:35
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Do not forget the speed. My sister-in-law some years ago got attacked by two robbers after having left a bus in a suburb of Zug. She yelled for help, and virtually within minutes her do "arrived" on the scene. Police took due care of the robbers and investigated. It was found out that the dog had jumped from the balcony on the first floor directly onto the road, had covered the 300 meters with a speed of some 40 km/h and in his jump onto one of the robbers had covered almost three meters. He was a medium-sized shepherd-dog, and so it is easy to imagine that the robber had no chance. Those police-agents were absolutely enthusiastic about the dog !
My father grew up next-door to a German Shepherd breeder, who had nice tall fences around the yard. Made the other people feel nice and safe - they didn't see how, when a puppy wriggled out under the fence, the mother jumped the fence, picked up the pup, and jumped back in. Many people don't understand how powerful bigger dogs can be ... which brings us back to one point (I think) everyone in this thread can agree on - dogs need to be well-trained.
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  #88  
Old 08.01.2011, 10:57
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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If you are someplace where you are guaranteed to run into other people: your dog, on lead, all the time. I say this as someone who grew up with well trained dogs. It's the right thing to do and only polite. You have no idea if people have been attacked by dogs before and have a fear of them, like you said you can't read their minds so it's up to you to exercise some form of intelligence and consideration. You also can't read your dog's mind.
There are tons of parks in Bern where dogs just plain aren't allowed or must be left on a leash at all times. I'd say that, just as I keep my dog on the line or out of those areas, that people who are in "dog-friendly" parks can respect the fact that even city pups need a place to run around on weeknights with a bit of abandon. This isn't to say that aggressive or otherwise poorly behaved dogs should be allowed to run wild in places that are still occupied by people.
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  #89  
Old 08.01.2011, 11:01
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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There are tons of parks in Bern where dogs just plain aren't allowed or must be left on a leash at all times. I'd say that, just as I keep my dog on the line or out of those areas, that people who are in "dog-friendly" parks can respect the fact that even city pups need a place to run around on weeknights with a bit of abandon. This isn't to say that aggressive or otherwise poorly behaved dogs should be allowed to run wild in places that are still occupied by people.
That is my whole point. If the area is design to have dogs off leash, this is to people to be aware of this. But street and public areas should see dogs on leash. If your dog has a bad behavior, he should be at all time on the leash to protect other dogs and people until he learns to behave.

It is using common sense while living in society!
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Old 08.01.2011, 23:28
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

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Can we do that to all the little shitty uncontrolled kids we see in parks or urban environments ...
And their parents !

Kids should be leashed or under control of the parents - just brilliant.
It will make going out in CH a far more pleasurable experience ...
Bring it on!!
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  #91  
Old 09.01.2011, 13:16
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

It's not just dogs off their leads that attack. I was ruuning through the local woods when a dog (large puppy) charged up to me and jumped up at me, I actually felt its teeth through my glove. This shook me a little so when the owner, who had a large dog on a lead, caught up with the first dog and pulled it off me, I decided running was a bad idea, said 'I'll walk', turned and walked away, and suddenly the dog on the lead launched itself at me and bit me, embarrassingly, on the upper thigh and backside! Typically English, I said 'Kein Problem' and limped away. This resulted in a visit to the docs for treatment to four puncture wounds and a tetanus booster, and a gentle ticking off from the doctor for not getting the dog owners name and address. So beware of all dogs while you are out running, even those on leads.
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  #92  
Old 09.01.2011, 20:02
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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It's not just dogs off their leads that attack. I was ruuning through the local woods when a dog (large puppy) charged up to me and jumped up at me, I actually felt its teeth through my glove. This shook me a little so when the owner, who had a large dog on a lead, caught up with the first dog and pulled it off me, I decided running was a bad idea, said 'I'll walk', turned and walked away, and suddenly the dog on the lead launched itself at me and bit me, embarrassingly, on the upper thigh and backside! Typically English, I said 'Kein Problem' and limped away. This resulted in a visit to the docs for treatment to four puncture wounds and a tetanus booster, and a gentle ticking off from the doctor for not getting the dog owners name and address. So beware of all dogs while you are out running, even those on leads.
should have kicked it after the first time to avoid the second one. should have drop-kicked it after the second one.

*go on, groan. i know you want to*
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  #93  
Old 09.01.2011, 21:08
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

the discussion about the dogs reminds me of this movie clip
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Old 09.01.2011, 21:12
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

Im amazed at how many dog experts live in Switzerland. We should rename this thread The Generalization Thread.
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Old 09.01.2011, 21:25
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........
Reciprocal groaning is childish, the fact you have gone through this thread and groaned my posts after I complained about what you had written says more about your attitude than it does about the posts.
This post is just another example, I recommend not posting further since you have nothing of value to say.

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It's not just dogs off their leads that attack. I was ruuning through the local woods when a dog (large puppy) charged up to me and jumped up at me, I actually felt its teeth through my glove. This shook me a little so when the owner, who had a large dog on a lead, caught up with the first dog and pulled it off me, I decided running was a bad idea, said 'I'll walk', turned and walked away, and suddenly the dog on the lead launched itself at me and bit me, embarrassingly, on the upper thigh and backside! Typically English, I said 'Kein Problem' and limped away. This resulted in a visit to the docs for treatment to four puncture wounds and a tetanus booster, and a gentle ticking off from the doctor for not getting the dog owners name and address. So beware of all dogs while you are out running, even those on leads.
If this did genuinely happen, then you need to go to the police now and give a description of the dog, owner and the location it happened at. Chances are that it has happened before and will happen again, at the very least you will just give the authorities more evidence to put the dog down. or at the very least carry out a genuine search for the dog.


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We should rename this thread The Generalization Thread.
This and the other 31 threads already on the forum.
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Old 09.01.2011, 21:49
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Im amazed at how many dog experts live in Switzerland. We should rename this thread The Generalization Thread.
Taco, welcome to EF- This forum is, I think, not for experts of any kind, but just for people to exchange ideas, advice, experiences, etc. Are you a dog expert? If yes, I'm sure your advice would be greatly appreciated. if you are not, your point of view would be as valid as any.

(BTW In French, a tacot is an old-banger - just so you are warned).
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Old 10.01.2011, 10:53
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Taco, welcome to EF- This forum is, I think, not for experts of any kind, but just for people to exchange ideas, advice, experiences, etc.
I don't like this phrasing much. It makes it sound as if there is no-one here who can give professional information. I'd say there are quite a few EF members who are clearly well qualified in their specific field; others have learned enough about their subject to give accurate help and guidance (not just a personal opinion) - these are experts - and boy, are we grateful to them!
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Old 10.01.2011, 11:03
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

There is nothing I enjoy more than getting licked and attacked by dogs that are out of control. All the saliva dripping on my body is such a relaxing experience.

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Old 10.01.2011, 12:09
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

Quote:
...

(BTW In French, a tacot is an old-banger - just so you are warned).
Who cares about French? I would've thunk this was the English Forum ...



Mhmmm ... tacos ...

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Old 10.01.2011, 12:29
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Re: Off-leash dogs that attack

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Made me chuckle the way you wrote that.

It is one of my pet hates though. when walking in the greenery I often carry a big stick as when I was younger I was attacked by an off-leash dog in a park that took most of the skin from my right forearm, and it left some psychological (thankfully not physical) scars, and i'm now a bit wary. I genuinely would not hesitate to hit first, very hard, if a large dog ran running up to me barking and growling.
Sorry to inform you, but to the best of my knowledge, the chances of you hitting the dog before it get's it's teeth into you, are very limited.
It might only knock you down, before you hit it, but after it received the blow then ............................
You see, I am talking from experience. My nine year old, who loves (loved) stroking dogs, got bitten by one and I educated myself what to do in the future. Their eyesight can grasp things moving fast on a different scale then the human does & therefore can react quicker then we can.
Try it out. Next time you see a dog in a kennel, move your hand slowly and you will see that it can't follow it as opposed to when you move your hand fast. Their most vulnerable spot is their nose. But who dares going near those bared teath? An appeal to dog owner's: Please note that there are a lot of people out there who could be scared of your pet!
Since this happened to my child, I carry a little apparatus in my pocket that makes a sound which only they can hear & which they don't seem to like, which keeps them away.
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