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  #61  
Old 07.01.2011, 11:18
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Why? I assume it is in case a bottle is smashed? Oh, this thread is getting very surreal & I am not going to ask why would one go anywhere barefoot...
Maybe a thing from back home.. in Ireland we saw people shopping in their pyjamas and barefoot, or in a robe with what we all hoped was covering the Pj's..

I believe Tesco set a new rule, you are no longer allowed to come in barefeet or dressed in your sleeping outfit, even a fine was set for people who did enter the store dressed like it..

On Topic : I wonder if the security guards get training in how to interact with people ( customers) in stores, surely they are representing the company they work for and the store they keep safe from theft..
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Old 07.01.2011, 11:24
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Maybe a thing from back home.. in Ireland we saw people shopping in their pyjamas and barefoot, or in a robe with what we all hoped was covering the Pj's..
It doesn't say if you have to comb your hair though
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Old 07.01.2011, 11:28
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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If visiting a mosque, the basic thing is that you take off your shoes
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And if you visit Migros?
You're best removing your expectations.
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  #64  
Old 07.01.2011, 11:36
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

I'm not sure why the OP has such an issue ...
I would guess that they do have a right to look in your bag ...
And if you think it was because you are an auslander ... time to get used to it, TBH.

MTFU
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  #65  
Old 07.01.2011, 11:45
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Thanks guys. Now I understood the problem and I felt sorry for the security. And, thanks for your concerning. I am mature enough to go shopping without losing coins. The only problem is that I don't know he has the right to check my bag. Now no problem for me. Just imagine yourself in a strange land and somebody asked you to take off your shoes. Wont you asking somebody else if the man have the right to do it, or is that a local tradition to ask people taking off the shoes?
What problem?

I'm not sure you are mature enough if you want to make such a bid deal about something so trivial as a bag check, especial if some random input from total strangers on a forum make you feel safe.


For all the folks who say the don't have the right to check, I'm pretty sure the stores who have detectives/security have done their homework with regards to the legality of the procedure they employ, and therefore would toe a line that would keep then from law suits about infringement of liberties. Although the attitude of the operative my be questionable, which is a rather different thing.

Storm and tea cup to me I'm afraid.
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Old 07.01.2011, 11:53
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Actually, while they cannot search your bags (or person!) without your permission, they can detain you and call the police if they believe you have committed a crime. That's a right every person has - you see somebody take the wallet from your friend's bag, you have the right to grab that person and hold them until the police arrive.
Of course, when the police arrive and see you have no store property in your bag(s), the security guys will look a bit silly and (as others have said) the cops may be annoyed at having had their time wasted.

Also, there's a bit of a grey area on "conditions of entry" - some stores (many of them in some countries I've been!) have little signs saying it is a condition of entry that you present bags for checking on leaving the store ... if you had to sign a contract to enter that contained that condition, then you have to submit to the search on the way out, but otherwise they'd have to prove that you read and understood their little sign if they wanted to push a search themselves: pretty much impossible to prove unless the sign is held by somebody who shows & explains it to every person entering the store ...






If you try to go into Migros barefoot, you may be told it is "absolut verboten!" to be barefoot in the drinks aisle ... been there, done that. Didn't get asked to leave, though (not even the aisle!), and have been barefoot in the same store on several occasions. Not in the last two months, though ...
It's not enough if hey believe you have stolen something. They must have GOOD CAUSE to believe you're a thief. E.g if they see you putting an item they sell in your pocket. The mere refusal to have your bags checked doesn't constitute good cause.

Putting up a sign reserving the right to search the client's bag won't change anything. It might possibly confer them a contractual right to look into your bags but they don't have any means to enforce this right. Certainely they mustn't have recourse to physical force in order to check your bag.
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Old 07.01.2011, 11:59
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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For all the folks who say the don't have the right to check, I'm pretty sure the stores who have detectives/security have done their homework with regards to the legality of the procedure they employ, and therefore would toe a line that would keep then from law suits about infringement of liberties.

This isn't correct I'm afraid. Shop employees aren't allowed to check bags after entry in the shop, although can set conditions about entry ("I must look in your bag if you want to come into the shop" or "let me check your bag or you must leave the shop") They have no greater rights than you or I have in our own homes. They aren't allowed to detain people in any case. For me, it isn't a storm in a teacup at all, and I'd never let a store monkey check my bags, nor would I let the police check my bags. It's a civil rights violation and if they really suspect I stole something they can arrest me. But they better be prepared to lawyer up and stand before a judge and be able to show just cause.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:01
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

First I am talking about this matter and asking for help. Don't make it personal. I am just expressing my thanks. I indeed feel better after your information, which I guess is not totally "random inputs". I said the problem is that I don't know he has the legal right and it was the first time to me. Can't you imagine someone did something to you, which he actually don't have the right? For my emotional reactions, my first response to this matter it that the check is not really random, and the guy's manner is not really nice. For now I still don't think they just close their eyes and pick people randomly to check. For the guys who happily opened their bags and said thanks to the security, I appreciate their style and I believe they are thinking the right way, but I don't think they really experience any discrimination so they might not understand the way that colored people think. And, in the previous replies, please, do not try to point my finger to the nation. I said I like here and I am just talking about my confusion and personal feeling.

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What problem?

I'm not sure you are mature enough if you want to make such a bid deal about something so trivial as a bag check, especial if some random input from total strangers on a forum make you feel safe.


For all the folks who say the don't have the right to check, I'm pretty sure the stores who have detectives/security have done their homework with regards to the legality of the procedure they employ, and therefore would toe a line that would keep then from law suits about infringement of liberties. Although the attitude of the operative my be questionable, which is a rather different thing.

Storm and tea cup to me I'm afraid.
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  #69  
Old 07.01.2011, 12:05
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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This isn't correct I'm afraid. Shop employees aren't allowed to check bags after entry in the shop, although can set conditions about entry ("I must look in your bag if you want to come into the shop" or "let me check your bag or you must leave the shop") They have no greater rights than you or I have in our own homes. They aren't allowed to detain people in any case. For me, it isn't a storm in a teacup at all, and I'd never let a store monkey check my bags, nor would I let the police check my bags. It's a civil rights violation and if they really suspect I stole something they can arrest me. But they better be prepared to lawyer up and stand before a judge and be able to show just cause.
Guess we have different views on this then, I'd just be smirking at some getting so het up. I don't know the law on the subject, but feel that if people did as you suggest the Swiss court system would be clogged with indignant folk suing, and I don't think they are. I'm also pretty sure that the stores aren't putting money aside to settle any related law suits... just sayin

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First I am talking about this matter and asking for help. Don't make it personal. I am just expressing my thanks. I indeed feel better after your information, which I guess is not totally "random inputs". I said the problem is that I don't know he has the legal right and it was the first time to me. Can't you imagine someone did something to you, which he actually don't have the right? For my emotional reactions, my first response to this matter it that the check is not really random, and the guy's manner is not really nice. For now I still don't think they just close their eyes and pick people randomly to check. For the guys who happily opened their bags and said thanks to the security, I appreciate their style and I believe they are thinking the right way, but I don't think they really experience any discrimination so they might not understand the way that colored people think. And, in the previous replies, please, do not try to point my finger to the nation. I said I like here and I am just talking about my confusion and personal feeling.
Are you saying it was racist now... must be time for milk and cookies soon, JEEZO

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Old 07.01.2011, 12:12
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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For the guys who happily opened their bags and said thanks to the security, I appreciate their style and I believe they are thinking the right way, but I don't think they really experience any discrimination so they might not understand the way that colored people think. And, in the previous replies, please, do not try to point my finger to the nation. I said I like here and I am just talking about my confusion and personal feeling.
Wow! Big assumptions here who stand on nothing! You make the assumptions that because I am white, I never experience discrimination?

First of all, this ain't my first country as an expat. Second of all, all countries I lived in and visited, I never felt as much racist then here, in Europe (not just Swittzerland).

Being different color here doesn't make you different of color everywhere. Being my color doesn't make me exempt of racist everywhere. Having my complexion, my mediteranean look makes a lot of people mistaking my country of origin.

Don't make such assumptions, you aren't that special.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:13
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Guess we have different views on this then, I'd just be smirking at some getting so het up. I don't know the law on the subject, but feel that if people did as you suggest the Swiss court system would be clogged with indignant folk suing, and I don't think they are. I'm also pretty sure that the stores aren't putting money aside to settle any related law suits... just sayin
You're absolutely right. The reason why people don't often sue (here) is that it's not really a big deal, is it? I don't have a problem with opening my bags - I'll do it when I get home anyway. For me, it's a civil liberties issue, and most people just can't be bothered with the theoretical when there's bills to be paid and trains to catch. But as with all of these things it's a slippery slope and it matter to me (really matters, on a daily basis) that I live in a country where police have to show just cause. Make a list of all the countries in the world. Divide into two columns, the left hand the countries where police have to show cause, the right hand column where they do not. Then see which column you'd like to live in. It really does matter, and if everyone kicked up a massive fuss, the courts wouldn't be clogged with court cases, the police and the shop monkeys would learn pretty fast.

Anyway, here's a bit of the West Wing...


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Old 07.01.2011, 12:21
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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You're absolutely right. The reason why people don't often sue (here) is that it's not really a big deal, is it?
Not to me Mr E, I just don't believe democracy is teetering on the brink because shops ask to check a shoppers bag.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:24
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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It's not enough if they believe you have stolen something. They must have GOOD CAUSE to believe you're a thief. E.g if they see you putting an item they sell in your pocket. The mere refusal to have your bags checked doesn't constitute good cause.
Never said refusing to have your bags checked was cause for this belief, just correcting the point where you said they have no right to detain you - when they have the same right to detain you as any other member of the public.

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Putting up a sign reserving the right to search the client's bag won't change anything. It might possibly confer them a contractual right to look into your bags but they don't have any means to enforce this right. Certainely they mustn't have recourse to physical force in order to check your bag.
As I said, if it's in a contract you sign, they get the right to check your bags - otherwise, they'd have to prove you read, understood and agreed to (by entering) the condition of entry. That sort of proof is impossible to have if it's just a sign near the entrance.

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Why? I assume it is in case a bottle is smashed? Oh, this thread is getting very surreal & I am not going to ask why would one go anywhere barefoot...
I prefer to be barefoot, and only wear shoes when it's far too cold or as required for work. Makes you step with more awareness of what's on the ground and, on several occasions, has resulted in finding windfalls!
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:24
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Are you saying it was racist now... must be time for milk and cookies soon, JEEZO
No, I don't know if it is racist or not. By "racist" I guess it means the way the security thinks and does things. I am talking about the way that people had bad experience about race discrimination thinks.

And no, I don't have milk, just some bread for lunch.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:25
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Not to me Mr E, I just don't believe democracy is teetering on the brink because shops ask to check a shoppers bag.
Neither me. But I don't let random people check my bags without just cause and neither do you. I'm just confused as to why you're OK with having your bags checked in a supermarket, but not on the street. The assumption must be that you've stolen something, that you're a thief. Why you're OK with that assumption is also confounding.

Most law in the UK, and much of it in Europe and the US is formed by court cases. The ones that lead the way are called "test cases" and are started just to formulate new case law. Broadly speaking, the government removes liberty constantly (every law basically takes away a little freedom) and these sorts of legal challenges redress the balance. For me, freedom is pretty important.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:27
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

My wife and I were stopped on our way into Interdiscount once. Something in her bag made the alarm go off. Turned out to be some makeup she'd bought at Heathrow, where they hadn't taken the widget off.

The security guy was perfectly pleasant, and we were glad to get the widget removed... preventing embarrassment when leaving the store! The fact that people were staring at us, perhaps assuming that we were part of a criminal syndicate complete with evil genius and white cat, did not bother us at all. We don't know those people, they don't know us, who gives a toss what they're thinking?

I have noticed that some people, when they can't communicate with you, or think they can't, because of language, tend to seem rude. I think it's more likely it's a symptom of them being unable to express themselves. If you'd been able to speak French, the situation may have been quite different. There's also the possibility of the lack of training. Finally, when you're being paid 3 rappen per hour, you might well not feel that being nice to suspects is worth the effort.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:32
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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... I'm just confused as to why you're OK with having your bags checked in a supermarket, but not on the street...
Because the supermarket are actively protecting themselves against theft, and asking people to check their bags is part of that. Reducing theft, reduces costs. Higher dividends for me, a shareholder.

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The assumption must be that you've stolen something, that you're a thief.
No more than the security people at the airport are assuming you're a terrorist. Thieves are less likely to visit shops with bag checks.

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Most law in the UK, and much of it in Europe and the US is formed by court cases. The ones that lead the way are called "test cases" and are started just to formulate new case law. Broadly speaking, the government removes liberty constantly...
Makes me wonder how we ever moved to democratic society with freedoms. Because a few hundred years ago most people had no freedom.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:35
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Neither me. But I don't let random people check my bags without just cause and neither do you. I'm just confused as to why you're OK with having your bags checked in a supermarket, but not on the street. The assumption must be that you've stolen something, that you're a thief. Why you're OK with that assumption is also confounding.

Most law in the UK, and much of it in Europe and the US is formed by court cases. The ones that lead the way are called "test cases" and are started just to formulate new case law. Broadly speaking, the government removes liberty constantly (every law basically takes away a little freedom) and these sorts of legal challenges redress the balance. For me, freedom is pretty important.
I feel to totally free, and am also quite happy to co-operate with police if they ask me a question, a store security guard who may want to check my bag upon leaving a store, or a boarder guard who wants to check my passport. Some random Joe walking up to me on the street may get short shrift however, I guess we just think very differently.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:40
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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No more than the security people at the airport are assuming you're a terrorist. Thieves are less likely to visit shops with bag checks.
That was my next point, thank you!

I don't like the pat down at the airport and being treat like a criminal. But apparently, if I want to be able to travel by air, this is what I have to go throw because I am still working on making my first million to buy a private jet.

If a store wants us to look in our bags to avoid thiefs, I am ok with this. Don't freaking touch me thought!
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:41
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Neither me. But I don't let random people check my bags without just cause and neither do you. I'm just confused as to why you're OK with having your bags checked in a supermarket, but not on the street. The assumption must be that you've stolen something, that you're a thief. Why you're OK with that assumption is also confounding.

Most law in the UK, and much of it in Europe and the US is formed by court cases. The ones that lead the way are called "test cases" and are started just to formulate new case law. Broadly speaking, the government removes liberty constantly (every law basically takes away a little freedom) and these sorts of legal challenges redress the balance. For me, freedom is pretty important.
I feel to totally free, and am also quite happy to co-operate with police if they ask me a question, a store security guard who may want to check my bag upon leaving a store, or a boarder guard who wants to check my passport. I view the request from a store employee on store property differently to some random Joe walking up to me on the street asking the same thing, who may may get short shrift.
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