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  #81  
Old 07.01.2011, 12:44
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I feel to totally free, and am also quite happy to co-operate with police if they ask me a question, a store security guard who may want to check my bag upon leaving a store, or a boarder guard who wants to check my passport. Some random Joe walking up to me on the street may get short shrift however, I guess we just think very differently.
Well, I think we think slightly differently. Borders are set up by the governments of various countries to stop (some) people getting in. Wanting to cross the border is voluntary, and so is them letting me in. I'd actually have no problem showing my passport to Interdiscount before entry either, so long as everyone had to do it. They can set any conditions they like - it's private property, I don't have a "right" to shop there. As for police asking me a question - sure! I always help out if I can, and have willingly accompanied police officers down to Paddington Green police station to assist with an enquiry (though I brought my own coffee, theirs is foul). But there is a different between being asked politely, and something being demanded. It's important that, by our indifference, we don't confer de facto rights on individuals that aren't granted them de jure. If an shop guard asks nicely I may even give him a peak at my bags. If he asks in a way that makes me feel like a suspect, he's going to probably wish he picked on someone else.
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  #82  
Old 07.01.2011, 12:49
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Well, I think we think slightly differently. Borders are set up by the governments of various countries to stop (some) people getting in. Wanting to cross the border is voluntary, and so is them letting me in. I'd actually have no problem showing my passport to Interdiscount before entry either, so long as everyone had to do it. They can set any conditions they like - it's private property, I don't have a "right" to shop there. As for police asking me a question - sure! I always help out if I can, and have willingly accompanied police officers down to Paddington Green police station to assist with an enquiry (though I brought my own coffee, theirs is foul). But there is a different between being asked politely, and something being demanded. It's important that, by our indifference, we don't confer de facto rights on individuals that aren't granted them de jure. If an shop guard asks nicely I may even give him a peak at my bags. If he asks in a way that makes me feel like a suspect, he's going to probably wish he picked on someone else.
I think this goes without saying it. Of course if someone is rude to me, he will get a piece of my mind and some hard time to get my cooperation. If I had the experience of one of the posters who had a pat down by a shop gard (WTF) I wouldn't have let him do it. Giving me a bad attitude won't bring you anything from me.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:51
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Not entirely true... I refer you to my Sanex story! Price sticker on (from a pharmacy, not from a supermarket, which doesn't use stickers) AND a receipt from the pharmacy stating clearly what I'd bought and the price matching the sticker... yet still facing an aggressive inquisition in front of a crowd of people making me look like a common thief (it didn't help that, at the time, my Spanish could have been significantly better). Being innocent doesn't always help [/traumatic memory]
You have to stand head and shoulders above that sort of thing and give some back.

Some time ago I was in IKEA and didn't buy anything. We only went in for a coffee and had underestimated the time needed to walk through half the store, even using the shortcuts. So I changed my mind and walked back out. As I didn't have anything (not even a bag) I didn't want to push my way through one of the long queues at the checkout so walked through a checkout that ws closed. To prevent that the IKEA staff had placed one of those barriers across that checkout but I pushed that aside and walked through. The security bod saw that and decided to be pedantic. I didn't have a bag so couldn't possible be stealing anything. He told me I had to go through the checkout, no matter what. This conversation went in a circle about five times and then I was beginning to lose patzience. I then gave him a long lecture full of gibberish that left him in such desparation that he didn't insist any further. When I took his photo and wrote down his name and mentioned something about the Blick he got really scared and I think that did it.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:55
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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... I then gave him a long lecture full of gibberish that left him in such desparation that he didn't insist any further. ..
Oh. I'm going to try that one day.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:55
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Well, I think we think slightly differently. Borders are set up by the governments of various countries to stop (some) people getting in. Wanting to cross the border is voluntary, and so is them letting me in. I'd actually have no problem showing my passport to Interdiscount before entry either, so long as everyone had to do it. They can set any conditions they like - it's private property, I don't have a "right" to shop there. As for police asking me a question - sure! I always help out if I can, and have willingly accompanied police officers down to Paddington Green police station to assist with an enquiry (though I brought my own coffee, theirs is foul). But there is a different between being asked politely, and something being demanded. It's important that, by our indifference, we don't confer de facto rights on individuals that aren't granted them de jure. If an shop guard asks nicely I may even give him a peak at my bags. If he asks in a way that makes me feel like a suspect, he's going to probably wish he picked on someone else.
LOL... I'll bow to your superior knowledge on coffee down the nick.

I believe the conduct of the rent a cop is important, and I think most folk would comply with a polite request. Sadly, paying peanuts gets you monkies, and a monkey with a bad attitude may well be the root cause of most issues of this type.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:56
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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You have to stand head and shoulders above that sort of thing and give some back.

Some time ago I was in IKEA and didn't buy anything. We only went in for a coffee and had underestimated the time needed to walk through half the store, even using the shortcuts. So I changed my mind and walked back out. As I didn't have anything (not even a bag) I didn't want to push my way through one of the long queues at the checkout so walked through a checkout that ws closed. To prevent that the IKEA staff had placed one of those barriers across that checkout but I pushed that aside and walked through. The security bod saw that and decided to be pedantic. I didn't have a bag so couldn't possible be stealing anything. He told me I had to go through the checkout, no matter what. This conversation went in a circle about five times and then I was beginning to lose patzience. I then gave him a long lecture full of gibberish that left him in such desparation that he didn't insist any further. When I took his photo and wrote down his name and mentioned something about the Blick he got really scared and I think that did it.

See, it seems that with all these stories of shop insanity, that they really do need to be sued a few times. I wouldn't have stopped for a head to head with the "guard". He would have gotten a smile, a "sorry" and I would have walked out. I don't have to queue to leave anywhere.
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:58
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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LOL... I'll bow to your superior knowledge on coffee down the nick.

I believe the conduct of the rent a cop is important, and I think most folk would comply with a polite request. Sadly, paying peanuts gets you monkies, and a monkey with a bad attitude may well be the root cause of most issues of this type.
I thought that peanuts get you elephants, and bananas gets you monkeys...



Edit; I assume that monkeys who gets the peanuts instead of bananas is what gives them a bad attitude!
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Old 07.01.2011, 12:59
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I thought that peanuts get you elephants, and bananas gets you monkeys...

Don't you just hate that sort of racial stereotype... it's attitudes like that.... oh never mind

Zookeeper - now Nelly what ya got in yer trunk
Nelly - Nuffink honest... innit
Zookeeper - Let me see then
Nelly - Not on you Nelly, this Nellies trunk is private, innit... why don't you harrass them monkies, them's alway up to no good... innit
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Old 07.01.2011, 13:15
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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You have to stand head and shoulders above that sort of thing and give some back.
I certainly do now! At the time, I had rather less life experience. I give just as good as I get now
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Old 07.01.2011, 13:23
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

Is it a urban legend that those private gardians only are allowed to hold you back but not search you? Ittigen on page one said this is the legal situation as it stands. I have no reason not to belive him (her?).

According to what is perhaps a urban legend, the pocedure would be to offer a "friendly agreement" before calling the police, aiming at getting the authorization from the customer to be searched (or rather, the bag) in exchange for keeping the police out of it. The shop would then offer to let the customer pay for the goods plus an administrative fee related to the costs of security. If the client accept, the police is not involved, which can be a good deal for some guilty clients caught.

If that is NOT true, then I really need to inform my Swiss entourage, because that's what they explained to me. I do not always believe somebody just because he is a local... so please feel free to correct it if that all is just a urban legend. I would pass on the information with a great sense of duty and responsibility to my entourage.

If that is true, though, I am tempted to let the guys call the police and make a big fuzz when I am sure that I do not have anything to hide in my bag... just a fantasy thought (in German, we call it Kopfkino).
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Old 07.01.2011, 13:32
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

Last year, I was leaving Globus in Bern (holding Globus carrierbag and my small rucksack on my back) when I was stopped by a lady and asked to accompany her back into the shop.
Wasn't worried too much, as I knew I hadn't stolen anything (would have legged it like the wind if I had....) anyway, she said I had set an alarm off somewhere (hmm...I hadn't heard anything) and could she check my bags.
She went thru them 3 times and seemed embarrassed when she couldn't find anything.
She apologised and gave me a voucher for a coffee in the restaurant (!), so this suggests to me that these kind of mistakes happen often.
Anyway, no problem, didn't feel picked on - she was polite and was only doing her job.
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Old 07.01.2011, 13:34
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Is it a urban legend that those private gardians only are allowed to hold you back but not search you? Ittigen on page one said this is the legal situation as it stands. I have no reason not to belive him (her?).

According to what is perhaps a urban legend, the pocedure would be to offer a "friendly agreement" before calling the police, aiming at getting the authorization from the customer to be searched (or rather, the bag) in exchange for keeping the police out of it. The shop would then offer to let the customer pay for the goods plus an administrative fee related to the costs of security. If the client accept, the police is not involved, which can be a good deal for some guilty clients caught.

If that is NOT true, then I really need to inform my Swiss entourage, because that's what they explained to me. I do not always believe somebody just because he is a local... so please feel free to correct it if that all is just a urban legend. I would pass on the information with a great sense of duty and responsibility to my entourage.

If that is true, though, I am tempted to let the guys call the police and make a big fuzz when I am sure that I do not have anything to hide in my bag... just a fantasy thought (in German, we call it Kopfkino).


OK, firstly shop "security" isn't allowed to restrain you. Secondly, you can't be "caught shoplifting" if you're still in the shop. I frequently put items in my pocket in Migros (I go in for a can of tuna, and realise a tuna salad would be great and so have two cans of tuna, a celery stick, dill and mayo and no basket). I proceed to empty my pockets at the checkout and no one seems to mind. You have to have passed the checkout and left the store premises to even be suspected of stealing, but unless you showed real intent, most courts would rule that it was a legitimate error.
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Old 07.01.2011, 13:52
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

OK, thanks, but is it then another urban legend that the shop security gards do not have any rights at all on the public space?
In German, I would use Konjunkiv1 to say that and conditionnel in French: the rumour wants it that the security can only get you between the place you pay and the entrance door. In some shops, that's a very small space, in others it is almost a corridor.

Does that also mean that they have no right to touch the customer, basically only allowed to talk and block the way out? There are sometimes two of them, one on each sides, and they try to get their arm under yours so that they can claim that they just showed you the way without actually grab you physically. It is quite hard not to follow and just escape under those conditions.

I am happy to be corrected as I would not like to spread urban legends. Thank you for your knowledge.
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Old 07.01.2011, 13:55
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Maybe a thing from back home.. in Ireland we saw people shopping in their pyjamas and barefoot, or in a robe with what we all hoped was covering the Pj's..

I believe Tesco set a new rule, you are no longer allowed to come in barefeet or dressed in your sleeping outfit, even a fine was set for people who did enter the store dressed like it..

On Topic : I wonder if the security guards get training in how to interact with people ( customers) in stores, surely they are representing the company they work for and the store they keep safe from theft..
Like those people
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Old 07.01.2011, 14:03
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I don't know how to explain to my wife that my bag is checked. I don't know if I will go to that Interdiscount again. I don't even know if I will still go shopping carrying a bag again. I don't feel safe here any more.
I genuinely have no idea if you're taking the p**s or not. If not, I advise seeking counselling immediately.
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Old 07.01.2011, 14:10
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

Would you mind if we installed a CCTV in all the rooms of your home including the bedroom and the bathroom?

Sorry for the seemingly flippant remark, Nils and please don't take it personally. The point I am trying to make is I have plenty of things I might want to keep private to myself - medical history, commercial secrets, bank details, embarrassing tastes in music etc etc.

For example, you might have an embarrassing medical condition for which you keep the medication in your handbag and you don't really want some gimp in a shop to know your business.

Cheers,
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I don't feel insulted or tracked down because I have nothing to hide!
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Old 07.01.2011, 14:13
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

So, the police have the right to search your bags. Do they have to tell you why they are stopping you and why they are searching you?
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Old 07.01.2011, 14:25
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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So, the police have the right to search your bags. Do they have to tell you why they are stopping you and why they are searching you?
These questions are much more complex than some simple watered down explanation you can get on the EF. Is there anybody here with proper legal knowledge.
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Old 07.01.2011, 14:30
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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So, the police have the right to search your bags. Do they have to tell you why they are stopping you and why they are searching you?
I don't believe that the police have the right to search without reasonable grounds.
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Old 07.01.2011, 14:48
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I don't believe that the police have the right to search without reasonable grounds.
I'm wondering what constitutes reasonable grounds, as I was once searched on the street, outside of Franz Carl Weber, while out with my (then four month old) daughter. The police both searched my diaper bag and called the station to make sure a baby was registered at my address with the birthdate I had given for my daughter. They never told me if they thought I had stolen a toy or the baby...

I asked them if I was under arrest, they said no, and when I asked why they had stopped me, they refused to answer.
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