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  #121  
Old 08.01.2011, 12:35
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I am an absolute bugger when shopping. I often pick things up and then have a change of mind and leave them somewhere else; I also use my pockets and bags to carry things in.
So you're the goober who leaves packages of raw meat in the canned goods aisle....
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  #122  
Old 08.01.2011, 15:12
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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This has nothing to with feelings. They don't have the right to look into your bag since it's your property. you might be carrying things which are of personal nature and which you don't want to reveal to the interdiscount guy. If you think i'm wrong please indicate the legal source allowing them to check other people's property.
They are controlling private property, in other words that shop in question. If you refuse their check, they have the right to keep you back until police arrives and THEY have the right to control your property, also against your will. And most likely far more thorough than those guards !

It is very much the same as ticket-controllers and security-men on duty at SBB and ZVV and VBZ etc.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 08.01.2011 at 15:32.
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  #123  
Old 08.01.2011, 16:38
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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They are controlling private property, in other words that shop in question. If you refuse their check, they have the right to keep you back until police arrives and THEY have the right to control your property, also against your will. And most likely far more thorough than those guards !

It is very much the same as ticket-controllers and security-men on duty at SBB and ZVV and VBZ etc.
NOOOO!!!

Refusing a random check does not give them the right to hold you back!

Art. 217 StPO only gives ordinary people the right to hold you back if they pretty much see you doing sth. illegal (in flagranti) or if, after a crime was committed, they have to assume with good cause that the person they are holding back is the perpetrator. They may not search you, (unless there is a reasonable suspicion that you are armed and intend to use that weapon against them). They can ask for ID but you don't have to tell them.

A suspicion that someone might have stolen sth. based on the sole fact that the person is carrying a (big) bag is not enough.

Basically, you could even use an appropriate amount of violence to free yourself if they are trying to hold you back on these grounds, but due to the relative difficulty of proving legitimate self-defense, I would strongly advise not to do that.

Plus, there is no direct link to the right of the owner (Hausrecht).

As others have said, security guys have exactly the same rights as every other person.

Last edited by SamWeiseVielleicht; 08.01.2011 at 18:11.
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  #124  
Old 08.01.2011, 17:22
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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They are controlling private property, in other words that shop in question. If you refuse their check, they have the right to keep you back until police arrives and THEY have the right to control your property, also against your will. And most likely far more thorough than those guards !

It is very much the same as ticket-controllers and security-men on duty at SBB and ZVV and VBZ etc.
Your really don't get it, do you. You just claim they have right to restrain you and to keep your property without stating the legal source.

ZVV and VBZ are not pertinent examples as, in these instances, ticket inspectors are entitled to check your tickets based on a special administrative act (Transportgesetz).
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  #125  
Old 08.01.2011, 18:46
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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NOOOO!!!

Refusing a random check does not give them the right to hold you back!

Art. 217 StPO only gives ordinary people the right to hold you back if they pretty much see you doing sth. illegal (in flagranti) or if, after a crime was committed, they have to assume with good cause that the person they are holding back is the perpetrator. They may not search you, (unless there is a reasonable suspicion that you are armed and intend to use that weapon against them). They can ask for ID but you don't have to tell them.

A suspicion that someone might have stolen sth. based on the sole fact that the person is carrying a (big) bag is not enough.

Basically, you could even use an appropriate amount of violence to free yourself if they are trying to hold you back on these grounds, but due to the relative difficulty of proving legitimate self-defense, I would strongly advise not to do that.

Plus, there is no direct link to the right of the owner (Hausrecht).

As others have said, security guys have exactly the same rights as every other person.
A) in case of bars, you have the choice. If you refuse, they refuse your entry into the premises
B) in case of the exits of shops and hotels they always can declare their "reasonable suspicion".
C) OUTSIDE the shopping area, they may have the same rights as every other person, but inside the shopping area, things look different.

And then you come to a very practical point and that is that most of these guards have the physical training/ability really to "keep you back"
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  #126  
Old 08.01.2011, 18:50
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Your really don't get it, do you. You just claim they have right to restrain you and to keep your property without stating the legal source.

ZVV and VBZ are not pertinent examples as, in these instances, ticket inspectors are entitled to check your tickets based on a special administrative act (Transportgesetz).
ZVV and VBZ not only have the ticket inspectors but also outsider security men. And the two sides in reality work very closely together.

The logic of your statement is strange anyway, because if YOU get kept back, your property cannot go forward without you, unless it is a dog The legal source will be told you upon arrival of the police .............
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  #127  
Old 08.01.2011, 21:24
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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OK, firstly shop "security" isn't allowed to restrain you. Secondly, you can't be "caught shoplifting" if you're still in the shop. I frequently put items in my pocket in Migros (I go in for a can of tuna, and realise a tuna salad would be great and so have two cans of tuna, a celery stick, dill and mayo and no basket). I proceed to empty my pockets at the checkout and no one seems to mind. You have to have passed the checkout and left the store premises to even be suspected of stealing, but unless you showed real intent, most courts would rule that it was a legitimate error.
But I guess if the shop staff or guard would supply you with a store basket, and wait there and then for you to empty your pocketed tuna, mayo and celery into it - you'd comply, wouldnt you?

When I worked in a shop, and saw someone putting something in their bag, pocket or under their skirt or elsewhere... I either asked them take it out again or called for the mall guard to ask that question. If they responded that we were mistaken and that they were going to pay for it we usually offered them that we could take it to the check out counter meanwhile the customer continued to look around for additional things to buy... always interesting to see whether the customer eventually came around for it or not...
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  #128  
Old 08.01.2011, 21:55
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

As we live near the border, we often shop in France. The first few times we shopped at our local (French) supermarket, the lady at the till asked to check the bags we had brought to pack the shopping - and we were happy to oblige. I did express surprise, and she was very apologetic. They all know us now and do not ask any more.
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  #129  
Old 09.01.2011, 00:00
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Answer: only the police have the right to look inside your bag, or search your clothes.

But: if you don't let security look inside, he can hold you, on suspicion, until the police arrive and search you.

Because: at or near the entrance is a row of lockers, where you can store your bags free of charge, until you have done your shopping.
Otherwise ask at the checkout where you can store them.

Don't feel too bad about it. On camera you were "Wandering about looking for something to steal".
I stand by what I wrote earlier. It was unfortunate for the OP that he spoke no French and didn't know the laws here.

Four years ago I started work at the US Embassy in Berne as a security guard. After 5 days of general training on searching people, cars, buildings, and passing an exam, I was let loose on searching up to 40 visa applicants each morning, without touching them! The applicants' co-operation is required, and it is possible.

We were not expected to think for ourselves: I was in trouble once for lending my handy to an American citizen to call her husband in Fribourg. Her own handy had to be left at the gate as US security demanded. The US passport employees saw her telephoning and called US security.

None of my colleagues were stupid, though some looked it. Many were working as guards because their qualifications were not recognised here. One was a Swiss dairy farmer and needed the extra money. One used to be a detective in the Kosovo police. Only one was dissmissed during my ten months there, he was three times verbally rough with the customers. None of them were racist. Our main job was to patrol, watch, and report the unusual, in all weather. After deductions we earned Fr 23,50 per hour. Better than social security, but only just.

The Bernese police were not allowed onto the US grounds without an invitation. The guards were allowed a citizen's arrest until the police arrived. As already mentioned and backed up by quotation from Swiss law, if you see a crime being committed you are allowed to hold the suspect until the police arrive. We were told that although we could not force the public to do anything, if an accident did happen, a judge would always give us the benefit of the doubt.

It is well known in the industry that the shop security is a very difficult and low paid job. After reading of your antics in shops, mistakes are bound to happen. Also extremely difficult is the disco & bar bouncer's job. Trying to be tactful with drunken people, whom are not the best behaved, is also very dangerous. How can you stop people bringing drugs into the building, you might loose your job or get a knife in your guts. Be nice to the guards and they will protect you.

.
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  #130  
Old 09.01.2011, 01:27
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

I generally try to make eye contact with the guard or a cashier when I exit an Interdiscount/MediaMarkt without having bought anything and say goodbye ("Ade") with a nod.
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  #131  
Old 09.01.2011, 10:48
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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Today I went to Bel air city in Geneva to buy presents for my family, as I am going home this month. I bought a bag for my mom and packed it in another bag. I was shopping happily. Then I went into the Interdiscount XXL. I was wondering around, trying to find a multitool for my dad, and a kettle for myself. Unfortunately I didn't find anything good, so I was leaving. At the door the security man stopped me and asked first in french and then in english "can you open your bad please?". I am a little angry, and asked if he checked everyone, in the proper way I think. Then he said "no english" and asked in english again if I can open my bag. I feel a little sorry because I didn't buy anything in the shop so I opened my bag and let the guy checked it. There was no sorry, or a kind smile. After the checking I asked again if he will check the bag of the others, he said (exactly) "I said no speaking english". The I left rudely without saying another word.

I have been in Geneva for three months. I feel great about the city and local culture. I am convincing my wife what a great place it is, although we have to live on a tight budget. I didnt feel any discrimination of skin colors, etc. Now, I don't know how to explain to my wife that my bag is checked. I don't know if I will go to that Interdiscount again. I don't even know if I will still go shopping carrying a bag again. I don't feel safe here any more. I got a lot of help in this forum since I came to suisse. So, man, please tell me, do they really have the right to check my bag? What will you do if your bag is checked?
Sounds like you brought an extra large bag of attitude with you.

They have the right to check your bag.
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  #132  
Old 14.01.2011, 15:43
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

Two nights ago, I was in the Coop bau and hobby and they checked some guy who was leaving and wearing a backpack.

He was in his mid-50s, probably, looked respectable.

He was white.

He spoke perfectly good Swiss-German.

I don't think bag searches have anything to do with racism, suspicion or anything else besides store policy...
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  #133  
Old 14.01.2011, 15:53
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

I still find that swallowing USB sticks is the best way past in-store security. I just always hope that they emerge the most streamlined way during disembarkation.
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  #134  
Old 14.01.2011, 16:13
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I still find that swallowing USB sticks is the best way past in-store security.
I agree.
I swallowed 5 yesterday and could take a 60 inch TV with no problems
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  #135  
Old 14.01.2011, 16:15
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I agree.
I swallowed 5 yesterday and could take a 60 inch TV with no problems

If you're a girlie, I'll PM you. If not, then my bad and way too much info....
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  #136  
Old 16.01.2011, 09:01
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

I was shopping in Zürich city centre last winter when I came out of a shop & two men approached me, one from the front & one directly behind me. The first said something to me in German & flashed a cheap-looking card bearing the Jelmolí shopping mall logo. I thought they were street muggers or con artists, and when I tried to brush past them, the guy behind me grabbed my arm. I wrenched my arm free and got ready to fight them, at which point we squared off. Luckily, I said to the guys "English" before anything happened, because at that point they both relaxed considerably & told me that they were store detectives & needed to check my bag.

I had been in Jelmolí a few minutes earlier, trying on coats. Because I couldn't find a mirror to hand, I'd been taking the coats into the changing rooms which were a few feet away - a salesgirl had seen this, thought it was suspicious & had reported me. Anyway, the two guys had followed me to H&M, then stopped me outside. They took me back to the Jelmolí security office, checked my bag & receipts, apologized & then I left. No harm, no foul.
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Old 16.01.2011, 09:51
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

Hi,

I had a similar experience in Interdiscount in Geneva. The security guard asked to look in my bag and I asked him why, he didn't answer. I asked him again whether he thought I had stolen something and he just asked again. Actually, they seem to check everyone who doesn't "fit" a certain profile - and that made me angry that they were checking me out among a bunch on teenagers, since that made me feel automatically if I had done something wrong. I really didn't appreciate being asked that, and I've actually avoided interdiscount since then - if they don't trust me as a client, they can lose me as a client.

I don't know ANY other shops who act quite so aggressively or actively against their customers - it's not even as if they sell quality merchandise, it's mostly all brittle rubbish.

But for me, they do at least epitomise the general attutude of the shops in Switzerland ( at least, in Geneva ) in that the customer is a pain in the posterior and definately comes second to whether the shop assistant can simply be bothered to assist.
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Old 19.01.2011, 16:39
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

The only way anyone is going to look inside my bag is with a search warrant. That includes the police.






The above does not apply if porsch1909 is at an airport
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Old 19.01.2011, 17:11
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Re: Aweful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

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I went into Data Quest the other day, bought something (small) & they didn't de-activate the tag so the alarm went off as I went out of the door. Everyone was staring at me so I laughed as a sales assistant approached me (back in the store). I showed them my receipt for the item, they apologized & I laughed some more...

Then I left again & the alarm didn't go off.
Those damn tags. I bought some shoes for my son and somehow the electronic tag hidden in the sole didn't deactivate. I had the bag with the shoes on the stroller and continued to other stores. Every store we went into the sensors detected it and staff stopped us. After much explaining and attempts to deactivate the tag in another store we needed to trek back to the store we got the shoes from and they couldn't deactivate it either So off the shoe went to the staff room and they microwaved it. Instantly deactivated
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Old 19.01.2011, 17:32
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Re: Awful experience in Interdiscount. Do they have the right to check my bag?

Actually, if you want to go shoplifting - try H&M - I bought a shirt the other day and they also didn't remove the tag, but I didn't hear the alarm since I had already plugged in my ears to my ipod ... I tried to get the tag off at home but then realised that this was type that has three coloured dyes inside and you you remove it by force, the ink ejects and your garment is ruined.

I took it back with the receipt and the alarm went off when I walked in the store - again, no one bothered to ask me about anything.

H&M makes Nazi Interdiscount look like a Buddhist holiday camp.
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