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Old 27.01.2011, 05:40
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Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

I live in an apartment where downstairs to us is a bakery. for the first few months everything was ok, but since Nov I don't know what's changed, perhaps the baker bought new dough making machine and since then every morning from 2-4am there's constant noise (similar to the noise from construction site) as if there's a mini factory underneath us. we contacted the landlord and he advised to talk to baker.
anyway, once my partner and I wake up from the noise it's impossible to go back to sleep and we both have demanding jobs and can't afford to be tired before we even start the day. We are using earplug but with that noise it's useless.

I know the best solution is to move out, but based on weird Swiss law we have to give 3 months notice and can only move out during these moving season... meaning we'll have to put up with the noise for another 2 - 5 months.

Has anyone had similar experience? is the bakery exempt from law or regulations regarding noise? what are my options?
Swiss public servant are quite useless, i don't think even if we complain they'll bother to do anything.

cheers
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Old 27.01.2011, 05:47
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Re: Noice 2 - 4am fom Bakery

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Old 27.01.2011, 06:30
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Re: Noice 2 - 4am fom Bakery

Did you speak to the Baker ?
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Old 27.01.2011, 09:04
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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I live in an apartment where downstairs to us is a bakery.
When you looked at this apartment, didn't you notice the bakery downstairs? It was there first, not you. Not all bakeries bake on site, sometimes they have the baked goods delivered. This would have been something worth looking into.


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I know the best solution is to move out, but based on weird Swiss law we have to give 3 months notice and can only move out during these moving season... meaning we'll have to put up with the noise for another 2 - 5 months.
You could give notice to move earlier and try to find a "nachmieter" someone to take over your lease, but I think that is going to be very difficult.


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Has anyone had similar experience? is the bakery exempt from law or regulations regarding noise? what are my options?
Swiss public servant are quite useless, i don't think even if we complain they'll bother to do anything.
cheers
How long has the bakery been there? Years? How long have you been there, a few months?

There is a process in place for rental problems, and it is not "useless" nor are the public servants who work there. I know cases where tenants have won the right to move and also substantial rent reductions.

If you are going to make comments like "Swiss public servants" are useless, you should really keep in mind that you are a guest in this country, and I think comments like this are in very poor taste.

Edit: P.S. Great first post...you are not going to make yourself popular here with a first post where all you do is complain and post derogatory comments. Sleep deprivation is obviously getting to you so you should be forgiven.
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Last edited by Mrs. Doolittle; 27.01.2011 at 09:09. Reason: added P.S.
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Old 27.01.2011, 09:18
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

Even if you have a three month notice period, you can terminate immediately for "important grounds" which make a continuation of the rent agreement unbearable.However, you might have to bear some of the costs depending on what the reasons are.

---
Art. 266g

III. Extraordinary notice

1. Good cause

1 Where performance of the contract becomes unconscionable for the parties for good cause, they may terminate the lease by giving the legally prescribed notice expiring at any time.

2 The court determines the financial consequences of early termination, taking due account of all the circumstances.
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Old 27.01.2011, 10:34
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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Even if you have a three month notice period, you can terminate immediately for "important grounds" which make a continuation of the rent agreement unbearable.However, you might have to bear some of the costs depending on what the reasons are.

---
Art. 266g

III. Extraordinary notice

1. Good cause

1 Where performance of the contract becomes unconscionable for the parties for good cause, they may terminate the lease by giving the legally prescribed notice expiring at any time.

2 The court determines the financial consequences of early termination, taking due account of all the circumstances.
I would be extremely cautious if trying that approach. The law is not a protection against stupidity... The bakery was there when the OP moved in. Did the OP think to ask whether there was any noise from the bakery at night? If yes and the landlord/agent said no, well that is a different issue. But the OP doesn't say that was the case so it is safe to assume that the OP just didn't twig that was likely to be an issue. But, I mean, unless the bakery does its baking off site, where else would it do it? And why should the landlord suffer because the OP was a bit of a dope?

This is a case where the OP should sing a few bars of "that's life" and go on to the next chapter...and give notice to the first possible opportunity. IMHO taking any official action will only make the OP look even more of an idiot...

However, if the OP feels that it is absolutely necessary, they can file a claim against the baker for illegal noise emissions according to art. 684 of the Civil Code. This could be a lengthy procedure, however the police would need to measure the noise and the administration would have to take measures if the levels are deemed intolerable. Of course where people in the neghbourhood would get their bread from is a major issue and if the baker had to close would the OP's life be worth living in that particular neighbourhood. I think not.

As I said, bite the bullet and move at the first opportunity....

Last edited by Snoopy; 27.01.2011 at 10:35. Reason: corrected typo :-)
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Old 27.01.2011, 10:42
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

Depends, Let assume the tennant asked about the noise and were told that it wasn't any. Which was the truth for months!

But something happened and now it has a big noise coming from downstairs, so what are their rights now?
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Old 27.01.2011, 11:09
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

Look on the bright side - at least you wake up every morning with the lovely smell of fresh bread!
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Old 27.01.2011, 11:15
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

Don't you love it when the 1st post is a whinge

The bakery was there when you moved in right, so I would guess that a certain amount of noise is to be expected. Any sensible person who values their sleep should have asked about noise especially as bakers are known to be the type of business that starts very early. So unless there is something that has fundamentally changed, and you'll get that from the baker, I'm not sure what you point is.

As for Swiss public servants, I think on the whole you will struggle to find more organised (if sometimes anal) helpful, or efficient agents anywhere, so that statement is frankly cobblers. Mind you they do have a rather large bin for nonsense and timewasters, which they do deal with incredibly well by ignoring it... and the mumbling of 'bloody auslander' on occasion
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Old 27.01.2011, 12:20
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

Earplugs for 3 months then move out.
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Old 27.01.2011, 12:37
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

You really knead to think about what to dough. Perhaps the previous tenants were born and bread in the apartment and learned to roll with it? Perhaps there's really muffin you can do about it?

I really don't know, having never bun in such a situation myself.

I guess you'll just end up pudding it down to experience.
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Old 27.01.2011, 12:41
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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You really knead to think about what to dough. Perhaps the previous tenants were born and bread in the apartment and learned to roll with it? Perhaps there's really muffin you can do about it?

I really don't know, having never bun in such a situation myself.

I guess you'll just end up pudding it down to experience.
You can't have your cake and eat it! In all seriousness this situation takes the biscuit really!
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Old 27.01.2011, 12:42
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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You can't have your cake and eat it! In all seriousness this situation takes the biscuit really!
And when all is said and done that is just the way the cookie crumbles.
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Old 27.01.2011, 12:45
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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Don't you love it when the 1st post is a whinge
Why should people not come and ask for help on EF with a first post? Fair dos that it's not the most polite approach but who writes the rules?

It could've been in housing rather than complaints but I sense desperation.

Mieterverband should be able to advise.....but I'd be looking for a new place to live already and have handed notice in. I'd assume it's in your favour that there was not this noise in the early time of your tenancy but the bakery was there as others pointed out.

Does the landlord rent to the bakers too?
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Old 27.01.2011, 12:48
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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Has anyone had similar experience? is the bakery exempt from law or regulations regarding noise? what are my options?
Well, here's an option I am surprised nobody has mentioned yet.

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Old 27.01.2011, 12:50
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

It depends whether you believe it's the Baker's fault or yours.

It's 7 of one and half a dozen of the other.
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Old 27.01.2011, 13:31
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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Why should people not come and ask for help on EF with a first post? Fair dos that it's not the most polite approach but who writes the rules?
Ask for help certainly and most early posts are, but being rude about our hosts, when in all likely hood the op should have expected something, I would classify as a plain old fashioned half baked whinge.

Seems to me a wholemeal is being made of the scenario of noise from an existing commercial firm, and this is a storm in a teacake. I'd chapati the bakers door and ask him what the scone is, bunt if he's running his existing business to earn his bread....
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Old 27.01.2011, 13:35
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

Quote:
You really knead to think about what to dough. Perhaps the previous tenants were born and bread in the apartment and learned to roll with it? Perhaps there's really muffin you can do about it?

I really don't know, having never bun in such a situation myself.

I guess you'll just end up pudding it down to experience.


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Old 27.01.2011, 13:36
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

I did not think the OP was actually being rude anywhere.

And I'm too lazy to knead to resort to crusty old puns
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Old 27.01.2011, 13:38
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Re: Noise 2 - 4am from Bakery

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I did not think the OP was actually being rude anywhere.

And I'm too lazy to knead to resort to crusty old puns
Typo there again. It's 'crusty old buns'.
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