Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #501  
Old 08.07.2015, 20:07
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,832
Groaned at 837 Times in 652 Posts
Thanked 29,181 Times in 11,796 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

You're right that money does play a big part in it. In Switzerland, the lack of financial support is why the anti-smoking groups are small and have a poor advertising record.

Still, it's nice to see that the smokers here support some immoral big businesses through their actions. Well done them!
  #502  
Old 09.07.2015, 10:14
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,022
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,558 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

So summing this up.

Here are the negatives of smoking:

It stinks
It kills you and those around you
It costs a shit load of money, which you burn up
Causes premature aging
Smoking during pregnancy causes permanent damage to unborn babies
It's addictive
Ruins your appetite
Stops natural hunger sensations
Socially negative

And the one and only reason to smoke:

Because you can (Totally awesome and rational reason of course)

In a few generations we'll look back and wonder what the hell people were thinking who smoked. In the same way that it was OK to send children down mines.
__________________
Crash your karma into little bits of happiness
The following 5 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #503  
Old 09.07.2015, 10:27
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,102
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Anyone ever seen this?

This user would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #504  
Old 09.07.2015, 10:41
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 219
Groaned at 29 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 90 Times in 56 Posts
pasty is considered a nuisancepasty is considered a nuisancepasty is considered a nuisance
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
I was just sitting on our local station platform when an old bugger, in his eighties or nineties, ambled over, sat down on the bench next to me and lit up. He sighed deeply, sat back and slowly drew on his cigarette while enjoying the cool morning air and a spectacular view of the Glaernisch massif. We nodded to each other, then returned to our individual reveries.

I couldn't help but think of this thread, and the torrent of self-righteous, intolerant, judgemental tripe that festers throughout. Which of you could, with a clear conscience, deny this poor old sod his few moments of peace and quiet? Which of you could demand he put his cigarette out for the sake of your own selfish comfort? Isn't there enough fresh Alpine air to go round? What harm is a couple of puffs of smoke compared to the happiness of some old codger who probably hasn't got much time left anyway?

The contrast between that delicious moment of peace and silent companionship and the miserable harping on this thread couldn't have been starker.
Ha ha.I had a similar scenario Monday. After I've been shopping I often go to the restaurant opposite the supermarket for a cold beer and a ciggy while I wait for the bus. An old guy of 80 leaned over and asked he could have one for 50 Rapps, as he doesn't buy packets any more. I said have it for free, but he insisted.
Anyway, we ended up having a nice chat about my part of town, where he was born, and I found out I knew more about it than he did, thanks to http://www.stadtplan.stadt-zuerich.c...stadtplan.aspx which is available for ipad/phone, and android. Impress your Swiss friends with your superior knowledge of their city!
This user would like to thank pasty for this useful post:
  #505  
Old 09.07.2015, 10:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kt.Zh
Posts: 12,460
Groaned at 490 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 19,538 Times in 9,887 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post

In a few generations we'll look back and wonder what the hell people were thinking who smoked. In the same way that it was OK to send children down mines.
What makes you believe that? The only certainty we have is that in a few generations none of the EFeres will be around.
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #506  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:01
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,832
Groaned at 837 Times in 652 Posts
Thanked 29,181 Times in 11,796 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
What makes you believe that?
Because it's already happening in some more enlightened countries*

* excluding certain countries East of here whose names shall not be mentioned...


Quote:
View Post
The only certainty we have is that in a few generations none of the EFeres will be around.

And some of them will be gone sooner that others through no accident.
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #507  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:09
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 33,770
Groaned at 2,910 Times in 2,033 Posts
Thanked 41,091 Times in 19,421 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
So summing this up.

Here are the negatives of smoking:

It stinks
To some people, but then so do farts, BO, bad breath, most perfumes, etc.

I much prefer the smell of smoke, be it wood, tobacco, castrol, etc.

Quote:
View Post
It kills you and those around you
Kills, no, may have a negative effect on the health of some people, yes.

Quote:
View Post
It costs a shit load of money, which you burn up
So does drinking,, fine dining, motorcycling, skiing, etc.

Quote:
View Post
Causes premature aging
Maybe, so so does drinking, fine dining, etc.

Quote:
View Post
Smoking during pregnancy causes permanent damage to unborn babies
In some cases, but not in most.

Quote:
View Post
It's addictive
For some people, hardly all.

Quote:
View Post
Ruins your appetite
Stops natural hunger sensations.
Again, for some people perhaps, not for anyone I've ever known.

Quote:
View Post
Socially negative
Only if you hang out with the wrong crowd.

Tom
The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #508  
Old 09.07.2015, 11:19
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,832
Groaned at 837 Times in 652 Posts
Thanked 29,181 Times in 11,796 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:

Ruins your appetite
Stops natural hunger sensations.


Quote:
View Post
Again, for some people perhaps, not for anyone I've ever known.
Of course it runis your appetite.
This poster proclaims that (and similar posters also confirm all the other things you wrote in your silly post...).



It must be great pretending you live in 1946.
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #509  
Old 09.07.2015, 12:15
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,967
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
I'm really not obsessed by it.

I thought my observations on the smoking culture in Switzerland and why it's so different from other developed countries were valid and not something others had mentioned.

I thought this was a discussion forum?

Just because you and DB and les autres keep mentioning the phrase "Live and let live" on this forum doesn't necessarily mean it's applicable in every situation.

> culture ?
> and what is soooo different ?
> it is the price of Direct Democracy. If the Canton of Schwyz is happy with the Federal Smoking Ban, so be it. If People from SZ DISlike the far stricter ban in Zürich let them dislike. In a direct Democracy, things move slowly
> the Lungenliga lost last time, not so much due to
--- smokers
--- tobacco industry
but because they wanted to get the whole matter centralized and pushed onto a federal Level --- and I am against centralism and in favour of federalism, in spite of this also being a slow process
The following 3 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #510  
Old 09.07.2015, 12:31
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,967
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
Because it's already happening in some more enlightened countries*


enlightened by some members of parliament ?
or enlightened by a wise dicator ?


I always had my doubts about direct democracy but hearing people like you I start to give preference to that deliberately complicated process. And whatever you hear from our friend in Ticino, it was the Cantone di Ticino who long before Zurigo approved a smoking ban --- in fact the mother of all smoking bans
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #511  
Old 09.07.2015, 13:26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
in fact the mother of all smoking bans
Ticino - 2005
Ireland - 2004
Canada - first province in 2003
USA - first state with partial ban in 1975


Apparently Mexico banned tobacco in churches in 1575


Ticino is far from being the mother of all smoking bans.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #512  
Old 09.07.2015, 13:36
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,832
Groaned at 837 Times in 652 Posts
Thanked 29,181 Times in 11,796 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
enlightened by some members of parliament ?
No, by government advisers in the medical professions.

I'm sure there are lots of very clever and knowledgeable people in the Swiss medical profession who are dismayed by the impotence of the government, or the people, to put a populations' health before other lesser concerns.

Quote:
View Post

I always had my doubts about direct democracy but hearing people like you I start to give preference to that deliberately complicated process.
As I said, the're nothing wrong with direct democracy for a lot of issues but I think (and others do too) that it falls down when public health is concerned.
(and it's not just smoking but other issues such as the fact that a percentage of the health insurance premiums that we pay each month go towards quack and unproven treatments such as homeopathy).

People are just not objective enough when health is concerned. They simply do not, and cannot address all the issues.

Last edited by Tom1234; 09.07.2015 at 15:48.
  #513  
Old 09.07.2015, 23:08
FunnyBone's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 903
Groaned at 41 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 1,342 Times in 582 Posts
FunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P2z6QJlRbs

Weird, I tried to embed the video but it said the file was invalid.
  #514  
Old 10.07.2015, 16:32
Patsycat's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,246
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,918 Times in 1,146 Posts
Patsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Does it last more than ten minutes?

Coz, i may have to go for a cig break....
  #515  
Old 10.07.2015, 16:45
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,102
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh



You have to embed only the last bit of the youtube text. The part after the equals sign. Then it works OK
This user would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #516  
Old 11.07.2015, 01:34
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,967
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
Ticino - 2005
Ireland - 2004
Canada - first province in 2003
USA - first state with partial ban in 1975


Apparently Mexico banned tobacco in churches in 1575


Ticino is far from being the mother of all smoking bans.

But Ticino was the first state where the PEOPLE in a direct vote put the Smoking ban into effect.- It was NOT government or parliament but really the PEOPLE


And in the USA, People in 1976, 82, 88 and 97 smoked like chimneys, in quite many places
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #517  
Old 11.07.2015, 02:03
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,967
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
No, by government advisers in the medical professions.

I'm sure there are lots of very clever and knowledgeable people in the Swiss medical profession who are dismayed by the impotence of the government, or the people, to put a populations' health before other lesser concerns.



As I said, the're nothing wrong with direct democracy for a lot of issues but I think (and others do too) that it falls down when public health is concerned.
(and it's not just smoking but other issues such as the fact that a percentage of the health insurance premiums that we pay each month go towards quack and unproven treatments such as homeopathy).

People are just not objective enough when health is concerned. They simply do not, and cannot address all the issues.

No, the People of Ticino DID vote the ban into effect and NOT some "advisors".


You as a non-smoker in Wädenswil profit from the fact that the People in a direct vote forced a good ban into effect, and NEITHER a government nor a parliament. The Cantonal government in Zürich tried to block the ban but had to yield.


Your argument against direct democracy is correct and rubbish at the same time. Lots of questions asked in popular votes are too complicated for most people. In West Germany, Theodor Heuss and Konrad Adenauer opted AGAINST direct Democracy but Germany now is gradually moving towards direct Democracy, at least on state Level. Here in Switzerland we have an almost totalitarian direct Democracy which indeed often is tiring, but it is as it is.


An example. ALL experts confirm that the federal Smoking ban should be valid in all rail stations and in all the halls and on all the Perrons but BOTH Chambers of the Federal parliament decided otherwise. And the rail-stations are owned by the SBB CFF FFS and so NOT under cantonal jurisdiction.


Finally, both the federalism and the direct Democracy are NOT "lesser concerns" but concerns of paramount importance


Public Health is subject to Direct Democracy --
I here quote from the French Version of the Swiss Federal Constitution LE SOUVERAIN C'EST LE PEOPLE
The following 3 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #518  
Old 11.07.2015, 10:36
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 18,832
Groaned at 837 Times in 652 Posts
Thanked 29,181 Times in 11,796 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Quote:
View Post
Your argument against direct democracy is correct and rubbish at the same time.
I think you could say the same about all forms of democracy in that they have good points and bad points.

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make.

And if you really think that in Switzerland, it's the people who decide, again it is only up to a point.
A lot will come down to which businesses and political parties have the most money to fund an advertising campaign on the issue to press their point home.
This was what I was saying about the anti-smoking campaigns in Switzerland - they have little money.
  #519  
Old 11.07.2015, 14:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

Tom, i do admire your persistance, in some instances it can be considereda desirable quality, but to continue with your flumadiddle is ! probably not one of these instances.
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #520  
Old 11.07.2015, 15:28
Patsycat's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 2,246
Groaned at 49 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 2,918 Times in 1,146 Posts
Patsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond reputePatsycat has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Smoking on the train platforms.uughh

I agree.

The smokers and non and ex smokers could argue until the cows come down from the mountains.

It's about being able to live together.

I say, i am one of the most polite smokers in this country.

You say, but you are poluting the countryside.

Basta - have a good weekend. Smokeless, i hope.

I still love that comment from the person who came here for clean air and mountains and was overcome with cig smoke. Paradise lost.

C'mon - i am sure that most of you had a chuckle about that. He/she should come down to Geneva in a couple of weeks and get high on the amount of pot being smoked. Wonderful addition to the clean air, and organic.

And might put a smile on your grumpy "this is not the Switzerland i imagined" face. Frollicking cows, cute chalets and the man that makes cheese in a mountain hut. They do exist, but not on every street corner. Which is where you will find all those nasty drug dealers and their mangy dogs. Who may or may not ask you for a franc, with no aggression at all.

I go with the flow. But, i do remember how the bar and restaurant owners lost lots of money when the first smoking ban came out. the wee old men who would potter down to the bistrot to have their wine and cigarette were lost. Then they banished that and the restaurants and bars were full again. And now, we all know to go outside. And the restaurants and bars are florishing.

And us smokers know our place. And in all my years as a smoker i have never had a complaint or one of those flaffing hand movements against me.

So Tom. wrap your kids up in their smoke avoidable cotton wool - there will probably be worse things to wrap them up against than a wee bit of second hand smoke as they get older.

Last edited by Patsycat; 11.07.2015 at 15:46.
The following 3 users would like to thank Patsycat for this useful post:
This user groans at Patsycat for this post:
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 15 (0 members and 15 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Smoking in the balcony :-O jamaicanRUM Complaints corner 169 17.10.2020 01:24
Ch-Ch-Changes - after the Smoking Ban NicM Daily life 14 16.05.2010 13:22
Online Bidding Platforms For Construction btb Commercial 2 26.10.2009 07:07
Smoking in restaurants mark Complaints corner 142 16.08.2008 20:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0