So why can't Switzerland be like other, more developed countries with respect to smoking?

As I said before, leave my kids out of your posts.

How I bring them up is my business.

You can bring your up anyway you want. If you have any.

Because we aren't sheeple?

Tom

No. Because asking a load of addicts to vote whether to give something up is like herding cats.

That's why direct democracy doesn't work as far as public health is concerned.

Freedom of choice............., Look how many kids get killed by guns in the states, only last week a 7 year old got blown away in Chicago (4th July)

If you don't like being around smokers, move away, or go inside where they can't smoke, but to forbid it everywhere is a travesty. Smokers already agreed to move out of bars, public spaces and go outside, so you could be a little more tolerant, like smokers are, and move along the platform a bit.

As the eminent DB mentioned on page whatever of this rather long diatribe, live and let live.

Tom, all you have managed to show is your complete lack of tolerance to anybody else and anybody who wants to do something different than you.

If you can't handle it, go buy private island and make your own rules as you see fit.

Normally, he's quite smart. I can't be arsed to read this thread, but allowing people to do things which harm others with the argument "live and let live" is retarded. Your own analogy would be to say it's ok to shoot people, because "live and let live" applies to the person doing the shooting.

Personally, smoking in train stations and on platforms doesn't bother me, as they're big enough for me to move out of the way, but that doesn't mean the argument put forward to justify it is correct.

Comparing smoking on a platform with shooting people? Really?
Pot calling the kettle black...

So basically you've decided that you're the arbiter who decides what level of physical harm or discomfort is to be tolerated and what isn't?

And, for the record, second-hand smoke has contributed to the deaths of more Americans than in shooting incidents in the last fifty years.

Unlike others, I actually didn't. I'm asking some questions. Any problem with that?

You thought it was worth mentioning.

Of course it was worth mentioning, Tom. We all have the right to be here, even it might come as a shock to some...

Btw. Since you're not likely to solve the "Swiss problem" of smoking in public places any time soon, you might try to occupy a position as a moderator here! Although the probability that one of the mods in function would give up the sweet taste of "power" and rightfully vacate a position after days of hard working of illuminating the anonymous unwashed masses is as low as the chances that Swiss people will suddenly stop smoking on platforms....
But good luck with any of them.

No, but we're already got a group of people who are interested in being part of an initiative committee to get look at getting smoking banned at playgrounds and public funded bathing areas which allow kids.

It might be something that is done at a local level as we'd probably have more success.

Of course, I can't be on the initiative committee as I am not on the electoral role but it doesn't stop me doing research but the others are health-care professionals here.

We'll see how it goes.

Even if it doesn't get anywhere - raising public awareness is a good thing.

I ought to add that this wasn't my idea at all.

I would personally love to see smoking banned in bus shelters and tram stops. The amount of times I have had to step out of a shelter in bad weather just because I don't want to breath in their crap are countless.

I know there are considerate smokers out there who do stand away from other people but there are countless more who think its perfectly ok to smoke around anyone whether the other person shows discomfort or not!

Utter selfishness is what it is!

No, that would be silly. My comment was as a response to the post right above it, where that analogy was made. The argument "live and let live", unless appended with "if you're a smoker" would apply to anyone doing anything, hence the silliness of it.

GM, who said to "live and let live", says she's a nonsmoker (she's female, right?). So doesn't that essentially boil down to what you do by moving out of the way?

What you seem to ignore is that the amount of exposure affects the effect. Inhaling smoke at a bus stop that has been diluted by perhaps ten or a hundred times has a far smaller effect than, say, being exposed to air thick of smoke when serving in a bar.

And of course, the numbers you quote as the gospel truth are at best extrapolations, originally based on assumptions by people who have an agenda of their own to begin with - bias anyone?

I've shown this thread to everybody in the office, eleven people in total, and everybody just shook their heads at your reaction. If anything, your going ballistic over a minor issue does a disservice to your cause.

Well, are they Swiss? (Like you?).

When I have gone ballistic? Please provide the quoted text.

What I'm interested in is the normalisation of smoking here which you don't see in other developed countries.

So, you can lump Switzerland in with the Balken countries (no offence) with the habit and the filth caused by the habit.

It's accepted practice to smoke here and the kids (not mine) just pick up on it as normal rather than seeing it as a negative habit.
Others don't see the normalisation of smoking in this country as a minor issue as you state.

You appear to be too blinkered to see that but I have noticed that on other threads that you've posted on too.

Well, not all Swiss have that same "we've always done it like this" so it must be right attitude.

I smoke, I wish I could stop, again, I am working on it. I don't light up in a crowd, or where it is prohibited, and I never light one in public unless I see a place to get rid of the butt. I never smoke where it is prohibited, and certainly not when visiting someone's home, unless they also smoke. I support the ban inside, and in restaurants etc. I am dismayed at the butts littering the train platform, and wierdly, I cannot stand cigar smoke. I guess that makes me the most considerate smoker ever.


As to a ban on all smoking in any public place, it is pretty simple: Get a Swiss Passport, start a referendum and get your agenda through. If you can't get your agenda through, live with the democratic process. Until it is illegal it is legal. You may not _like_ it, but that is a different issue.

The point is that Direct Democracy affects ALL aspects of life


In the Canton of Zürich, the Smoking ban neither had a Major Party nor Major Business interests in its favour but got approved

and in case of Switzerland the figure includes "SMOKER CANTONS" who only have the weak federal ban.

A) Tackle the matter on the level of the Canton of Zürich, as the local level is useless
B) in case of playgrounds the ban should be total
C) but in regard to bathing areas to have fumoir-areas should be part of the proposal