On a train platform, you usually are able to move away ...

but in restaurants, smoking is awful. Just spent a week away in the Valais, and as it was so hot, we drank and ate on restaurant terrasses every day. Every single time, our meal was spoilt by groups of people lighting up, even huge cigars- whilst we were eating- and as it was busy, impossible to move away from it. There really should be separate areas for smokers - I know smoke would drift to some extent, but at least there would be some protection! When you sit down for a meal, you can usually sit away from those who smoke, but most of the time, you only find out all those at next table (s) smoke, too late! Grrrr (I used to smoke, but never would I light up near people who are eating- or when in close proximity to others- those we met were totally oblivious- mostly Swiss (like me) ... one woman had 7 cigarettes next to us whilst we ate our lunch in Saas-Fee!).

Agreed? No, they were forced despite kicking and screaming against it. They most definitely didn't simply "agree".

I am a bit puzzled. In Zürich, Smoking IS permitted in garden Restaurants, in Fumoirs and on Restaurant terraces, but Smoking in garden Restaurants and on Restaurant terraces in recent years has clearly receded. Have Smokers from Zürich invaded Wallis/Valais ?

I fail to see how their nationalities or mine matter in the slightest. In my experience there are as many foreigner dickheads as there are swiss. What you call normalization is actually eradication, you using newspeak doesn't come across as particularly honest.

You've posted 30+ posts here in about one week. Going ballistic may be not the perfect description but it certainly doesn't qualify any more for ordinary interest.

The rest isn't even worth replying to.

If you don't like it you have few options:
- accept it
- swear inwardly
- move away
- initiate change, you don't need to be naturalized to be politically active

You seem to have chosen the latter. Good, congrats. Whether you succeed or not, I'm sure it will have much a bigger impact than your incessant posts on here.

Erghm, it's actually the exact term (no offence Tom) He's very aggressive (on this subject) and so are those who join him in defending him and his anti-smoking campaign (not all of them though). Please read all the replies (haha, but I don't blame you if you're not going to do that) and you'll see...
Which is weird because I'm sure he's a very reasonable person otherwise...


Hope that this sort of reply will mollify some people here, though I won't hold my breath.

Being a Aussie and having spent some time in the northern areas of Queensland I can tell you that hearding cats is possible. The problem is after they have been hearded they cant move any more, ever. Probably better to leave the details of my method for another thread...

To my surprise, I experienced this too! Didnt expect so!!

Thanks. And you have my sympathy, I know how hard it is to stop. But I suppose it is a bit like bad dog owners, they give all dog owners a bad name- same for smokers with no manners or consideration.

I am absolutely sure YOU would never consider smoking a cigar next to a group having a meal- and neither would you smoke 7 cigarettes in 20 minutes next to people eating either! Get up and go and smoke elsewhere if people are eating around you, or if there are children around, etc. This is what my smoker friends and relatives do... not that difficult really. And if on a terrasse and there are people in close proximity, even if not eating, ask if they mind, and move if they do. Simple, just common courtesy and basic manners. One of our best friends here smokes like a chimney- and is totally against any ban- but he always gets up and goes to the side away from others, whever we are having l'apéro or a meal, always, because although he is a grumpy old s*d (and we all love him) he is considerate.

Now that post sounds like it's gone 'ballistic' for sure!

+ 1 million.

Whatever the law is it completely missed the scope in my view by not extending the smoking ban to outdoors restaurant terraces.

The point being, if the law accepts second-hand smoking is dangerous, it should try at least to cover all situations where non-smokers may be subjected to smoke in public places. What's the point of having a smoking ban indoors if half of the year people eat outdoors - all the while sitting within the same distances to smokers? For what matters, for a non-smoker sitting next to a person smoking while eating is just as disgusting and intrusive indoors and outdoors. The smoker has the choice to get up and smoke his/her cigarette away from the terrace - what should the non-smoker do, take his plate on his lap over to the side of the road?

Getting back to the original point - I noticed recently how in Lausanne T-L have started placing ashtrays _within_ the bus station enclosures... sometimes just next to non-smoking signs? How strange is that... See at Ours for instance - there's always people smoking now within the station, even next to the non-smoking signs, just because the ashtrays are now inside? I suspect they did that because of the vandal smokers throwing butts on the ground as they are clearly too lazy to walk to the rubbish bin two meters away before the bus pulled over... but that's more likely to compound the problem than getting rid of it...

Re-reading my post, I probably should have said "last" instead of "latter" in order to point to option #4, as was my intention and hopefully made clear by the closing sentence.

My idea was/is to calm things down a bit (for which quibbling and derogatives are anything but helpful) while still giving some counterreaction.

But perhaps this topic is simply too emotive to have a discussion, as opposed to a repartee where people rarely listen to each other.

You sound like you're already well on your way, and when you inevitably stop and it "sticks", you'll sadly notice for yourself how much of an exception you are. Good luck and keep at it, life is immeasurably better as a non-smoker.

I give up on this thread. Probably until the next one, some poor coughy coughy person complaining about smoking in the oddest of ways.

The other night, i actually sat outside of a pub and did not smoke one cigarette. Why? Because a friend had brought her child to meet everyone. I was able to hold and cuddle a baby. We, nasty smelly people do have manners too.

And the child's mother let me, yes me, cuddle her son. Who, since that terrible time in his life still seems to be alive even after smelling my disgusting smoke impregnated clothes. Which actually were composed of a newly showered body, a pair of knickers and a clean summer dress and sandles.

Wrap your kids up in cotton wool, as you wish.

Of course they do. You're the ones that decide what's allowed and what isn't.


I think you misunderstood me (again). Try re-reading what I wrote.

I was saying that allowing smoking everywhere means it remains a normal, accepted, everyday practice.

This isn't a good state of affairs for future generations.

Not all smokers are like that. Some are really considerate.

We were at the restaurant at the local badi at the weekend and we chose a table (as is our right) away from the smokers.

There was a couple of women there with their kids and one of them was a smoker. When she wanted a cigarette, she got up from her group and walked over and sat next to my kids and proceeded to smoke over where they were eating and then went back to her own table to carry on her own meal.
What are people like? Are they really that selfish?




Why do you persist in mentioning other peoples' kids and cotton wool. What is your agenda?

To be honest, it's up to parents to bring up their children as they see fit and not to be told how to do it by someone who really doesn't have a clue.

And as for shielding them from smoke? That's hardly going to happen in Switzerland and the other Balkan* countries at the top of the world's smoking league table is it?

*Yes, I appreciate that Switzerland isn't actually in the Balkans but the attitude of the Swiss people is on par, as is the filthy residue of the habit smoking habit in public places.

A lot of tourists (and some locals) are now remarking on what a dirty country Switzerland is.

Come on Patsy- no-one said some smokers are not considerate- au contraire if you read my posts. Just that there are some, too many perhaps, who are not sadly. Lunch out in last week's heat was spoilt for all of us due to inconsiderate smokers- as said, 4 people smoked at the next table with a breeze coming right into our face as we were eating last week- with one woman smoking 7 fags in a row in about 15-20 mins. And another meal we had a guy smoking a massive cigar right next to us- not on.

I truly do NOT believe in wrapping kids in cotton wool- but you yourself realised that it was best not to smoke when cuddling your friend's baby. Does that make you a cotton wool wrapper? Both OH and me grew up with 2 smoking parents- who both smoked in the car wherever we went. OH just cannot bear the smell, and neither can his sister due to this. Their house was so full of smoke all the time, he had constant breathing trouble as a child.

Good news- it is now illegal in France to smoke when you have kids in the car- about time CH followed up on this.

That's wonderful, but doesn't it make you think twice about your addiction that you defend so vehemently? That you have to take a shower and not smoke for however many hours so you can hold a baby? Non-smokers can just hold a baby whenever they want, without jumping through hoops.

This is incidentally exactly why I quit smoking when I did. i couldn't bear touching my beautiful, perfect pink little daughter with nicotine stained, smelly hands, and scrubbing my hands everytime was getting tedious. Not to mention that I never wanted my kids to see me smoking, I don't want them to start like I did, growing up in a home with smoking parents. Nor did I want to jeapordize our short time on this planet together, or increase the chances of watching her father die painfully before his time.

Christ, what a disgusting and utterly selfish habit. Especially for parents.

Sitting at a cafe along the Rhine this weekend. Typical tight seating arrangement. Couple on the other side (assumed North American) sat down and ordered wine and a salad. Seasoned codger and his friend come in a few minutes later, sit next to them, and light up the cheapest, nastiest smelling cigars and order their red wine. Place is full so no where to move. Literally, crappy cigar smoke blowing right in their faces.
The wife is clearly agitated and is glaring at the husband to say something. He knows the score and is basically just F^€¥Ed. She gets up and drinks her wine across the promenade. He pays the bill and leaves without touching his salad.
It is legal, but as others point out, so is choosing not to bathe for weeks on end or farting upwind. Stay classy San Diego.

Who on earth does that?

Most people I know just put down the cigarette, and pick up the baby.

Others can juggle both.

Tom

That's what Patsycat said she did before holding a baby, unless I read it wrong...

She said she didn't smoke at the pub, nothing about showering, changing clothes, etc.

Really, it's a wonder that anyone is alive today, assuming that this second hand smoke stuff is true.

Tom